Post B6q2VQfshzkeP4K71c by alexia@starlightnet.work
(DIR) More posts by alexia@starlightnet.work
(DIR) Post #B6pwV3c3qrnv9byZI8 by star@amazonawaws.com
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Considering placing an order for a Framework Laptop 13 Pro
(DIR) Post #B6pxGk8XZCBieLuFJQ by alina@girldick.gay
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@star despite the fact that they're sponsoring omarchy...?
(DIR) Post #B6pxLBfL9kpDBiMp7I by solonovamax@tech.lgbt
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@star why's that?
(DIR) Post #B6pxLBsSMzJhqOVIYq by star@amazonawaws.com
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@solonovamax good performance, upgradable and repairable. it would be a laptop that lasts me a long time, and that i can improve further down the line. it's also very pretty
(DIR) Post #B6pxVYtldHQO8f3vNI by fries@solarpunk.moe
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@star get a macbook neo instead 🧌
(DIR) Post #B6pxVZ4Ozjvofe2Px2 by star@amazonawaws.com
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@fries that'd be a downgrade from the macbook pro 13 i just sold :P
(DIR) Post #B6pxWb9ajW6tQGxSvQ by commanderred@chaos.social
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@star but it's framework qwq
(DIR) Post #B6pxWbJW8c39v3bOOe by star@amazonawaws.com
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@commanderred which company isn't evil
(DIR) Post #B6py9JVCILQlyHWbo0 by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alina Apple used uyghur forced labor camps for assembly of their devicesDell was part of the Congo cobalt child labor lawsuit alongside AppleHPs ex-ceo has been ousted for sexual misconduct, they weaponize printers to die on you so that you have to turn perfectly working hardware into landfill decorASUS ran a warranty fraud operation caught by Gamers Nexus in 2024, where it invented out of warranty damage claims on devices brought in for valid warranty repairsLG was also part of the forced uyghur labor camp thing because they used that for laptop assembly. Also they got criminally convicted for cartel operationAcer is ALSO part of the uyghur forced labor camp thing and also they stored credit card data unencrypted which then inevitably got stolenthere are no good companiesthere are no "non-shit" big companiesevery sufficiently large company is soullessit's just this one lets me repair my laptop
(DIR) Post #B6pyBEQM97GYnjAvHU by fries@solarpunk.moe
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@star what about getting a fancy snapdragon x(2) elite thinkpad. arm laptops are cool.
(DIR) Post #B6pyBEZvZWvFHPeZCS by star@amazonawaws.com
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@fries no to dubious linux support
(DIR) Post #B6pyMSEN9ZEOo6vBEO by fries@solarpunk.moe
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@star @alina warranty fraud seems like the least bad crime out of the lot lol.
(DIR) Post #B6pyMSTyDZhxaUDdXk by star@amazonawaws.com
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@fries @alina well you also cannot buy asus laptops in germany so they are off the table anyway
(DIR) Post #B6pyQugFJvWQCU5Kzo by aura@gts.foxsnuggl.es
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@star @commanderred tbh the reason i wouldn't buy framework again is that i put up with subpar hardware and value because repairability is a good mission and then they kinda added "fascism is just like someone's opinion" to their missionbut if the value actually checks out for you, *shrug*
(DIR) Post #B6pyQuwCMcHYzxY4rQ by star@amazonawaws.com
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@aura @commanderred yes. but read fed.amazonawaws.com/notes/amwj270fw84c3h60
(DIR) Post #B6pybVwxbkGmgZxSlM by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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CC: @star@amazonawaws.comthe build quality sounds bad, lots of people complaining about the hinges breaking etc
(DIR) Post #B6pyg0Gkp7HlsTMCDA by alina@girldick.gay
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@star weh :(
(DIR) Post #B6pypwkqkHNLsCAvdw by star@amazonawaws.com
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@brettm that was mostly the 12 though right? the 13 pro is entirely redone and seems to have adressed a LOT of what was also wrong with the 13. and then, also, the 13 was literally their first ever device, so while that definitely sucks......... i can also kind of see how that happens
(DIR) Post #B6pzAM1wTrgm3WtwPY by stellavie@tech.lgbt
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@star @alina @fries you can! mediamarkt has a couple nice zenbooks!! they (asus) appear to be only moderately "evil" thus far and also taiwanese ^^
(DIR) Post #B6pzAMELjjc6g0hqka by star@amazonawaws.com
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@stellavie @alina @fries well fair but i just checked and they also used uyghur forced labor for their own profit
(DIR) Post #B6pzPsfDQshvbuftBY by star@amazonawaws.com
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considering holding out maybe until next batch to wait and see what people have to say about issues regarding build quality. though it seems compared to the 13, the 13 pro seems to have addressed build quality issues by re-doing the entire thing, so i am at least hopefuli also currently have a lenovo thinkpad t14s gen6 and the build quality is just awful
(DIR) Post #B6pzTlrcekpVgBKhU0 by aura@gts.foxsnuggl.es
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@star @commanderred oh, i'm very aware.the difference is that if you bought early framework hardware, you got a bad deal, made up for by "underdog going for repairability narrative", it was a bit more like backing a kickstarter than buying a laptop for value, so of course everyone who did this got rightfully pissed when framework take a shitty moral stance for no good reason (like, they're just being shitty enlightened centrists, it's not even money motivated, it'd be easier if it was)
(DIR) Post #B6pzTmID3u650dlvvM by commanderred@chaos.social
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@aura @star granted, back then Lenovo had just shitty products. HP and dell is stuff u don't wanna buy anyways. And there wasn't really anything left x86_64 wise
(DIR) Post #B6pzTmclpSXm2POLyK by star@amazonawaws.com
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@commanderred @aura i mean, lenovo still has shitty products; their t14s lineup is absolutely hilarious in terms of build quality. the keyboard is nice, tho
(DIR) Post #B6pzlX4SOYI70onzqS by commanderred@chaos.social
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@star @aura I mean for me it's not just about repairability but also Software Support. I don't like needing to implement the weirdest fixes for stuff. Might be worth looking in the newer Lenovo's again, afaik ifixit gave them a 10/10. Also ig what might be a factor is that framework actively has that problem, and at least in ur toot u used past tense a lot.(Also sorry if that is a lot like I just wanna say like what my experience with it was but yea meow 🥺)
(DIR) Post #B6pzlXHvaT4Bgb6kqG by commanderred@chaos.social
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@star @aura like, they have a bug where the USB A module sometimes doesn't work in USB 3.2 slots. I was checking and it definitely is a firmware problem as new hardware didn't fix it. But still they insisted on me sending my stuff in that I needed for work back then instead of forwarding it to firmware engineers
(DIR) Post #B6pzlXW6jkPQOZk4wa by star@amazonawaws.com
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@commanderred @aura well, i have a thinkpad t14s gen 6, the newest gen with the amd processors (which are very nice), and i have NEVER gotten this thing to sleep or wake from sleep reliably. i have had it for a year, tried two different distros, a myriad of weird tweaks and fixes, and it still just. won't. wake.it's terrible and makes this thing really annoying to useeeeeeeeeeeeeee
(DIR) Post #B6q1M2e4ZyS9JlRAiu by brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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CC: @star@amazonawaws.comI am not sure, maybe it was just the earlier ones. tbh I stopped paying that much attention after the support they gave to that white supremist guy and then doubling down on the decision
(DIR) Post #B6q2VQ9GfFfClv44Bs by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star please do not fall into the same trap that literally all of my friends that own a framework did.The way we like to describe it, the reason framework is repairable is because things will be breaking a lot randomly for absolutely no reason while running hot as shit.Sure, this is a laptop that isn't out yet, but this has been pretty consistent with their past releases. Disregarding the fact, of course, that they fund an actual racist, while not giving a penny to projects that are literally on their website, like Krita.
(DIR) Post #B6q2VQVFLXFDs5LcRs by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star and before you say it, I'm not bringing up the racism because all other companies are perfect. I'm bringing it up because framework positions themselves as an morally better alternative*, while quadrupling down on supporting this racist.* after all, they are a big proponent of the right to repair movement, which is fundamentally about the morals of not allowing you to own and repair your devices.
(DIR) Post #B6q2VQfshzkeP4K71c by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star But regardless of all that, you're paying a pretty hefty price tag for a device that continues to have design defects and common issues that aren't fixed with later revisions. Like the overheating problems, like the terrible fan curves, like the fact that things constantly break from no reason.
(DIR) Post #B6q2VQpo75gutqy2Uq by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Well, no, I'd be paying for a device which, as you said, "isn't out yet", and is supposed to be a major redesign fixing the flaws that the 13 had, not to speak of the god awful 12
(DIR) Post #B6q2X2t87HldD7I6Yi by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star if you're considering to pay such a premium for a device, I would suggest you just look elsewhere.
(DIR) Post #B6q2X38jBIFBzUaYs4 by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia No one else offers a product like this
(DIR) Post #B6q2Ypig32MOwqFpB2 by mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
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CC: @fries@solarpunk.moe@star@amazonawaws.com + the fact that they "fake" the boot process by hiding some boot stages before UEFI ever loads and you can't replace the firmware on them at all because the firmware is signed
(DIR) Post #B6q2o5WJaGZIIRkJFI by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star fair but because the device isn't out yet, you also can't know if they've actually fixed those issues.For all we know, they could be pulling a Volkswagen testing moment
(DIR) Post #B6q2o5v860PxXPM7vM by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Yes but then again what's the alternative
(DIR) Post #B6q2pvYjacExyxkqqO by mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
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CC: @star@amazonawaws.com@fries@solarpunk.moe or maybe a more open rockchip powered laptop/tablet where you can boot a OS without dismantling it (only a SD card needed)
(DIR) Post #B6q35zWibeQwv8TIyu by mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
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CC: @star@amazonawaws.com@commanderred@chaos.social maybe don't judge a book by its cover
(DIR) Post #B6q3Uwzx901EJn2zpI by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean if your #1 is just modularity, MNT is there for you, or dell which IIRC also has a framework-esque modular devicewhat I am questioning though is whether you...need a modular laptop in the first place. I mean yes it has utility but...is it enough utility to justify the price tag over just getting another high-end laptop that has an ok repairability score? Would a device with good I/O not be enough?
(DIR) Post #B6q3UxTjMHq1o8ymEy by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Having the ability to upgrade my laptop in 5 years sounds pretty sweet, I am not going to lie. The Dell one I don't trust. Who knows how long they are keeping that around for. It's also just as expensive, if not more so
(DIR) Post #B6q3lBzl9bCpSnhYpc by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean, those upgrades are also locked-in to Framework's ecosystem, so if you buy in, you'll put a huge switching cost on yourself should you ever decide that the device wasn't actually for you, because now a motherboard upgrade that would've been idk, 700€ would become a whole laptop upgrade which will (judging from what ur willing to spend) more like 1500-2000€
(DIR) Post #B6q3lCCsMphK7Tq2HA by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Isn't there 3rd party mainboards already, like the ARM one from MetaComputing?
(DIR) Post #B6q3stE6op6pZR5FvE by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star we also haven't seen what Framework does once a chassis is "done", as in, no longer manufactured or supportedlike, what happens to the FW13 when the FW13P hits? how long will they provide upgrades for that thing after the Pro releases? just another question in regards to longevity and viability of this upgradable laptop idea
(DIR) Post #B6q3stUlosR8P6sYtM by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia It's better than literally any other laptop that exists that is non modular, is for sure
(DIR) Post #B6q3y08OYxtWRVqfWi by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star the reason it works for desktops is because ATX, ITX etc are all standardized, after all
(DIR) Post #B6q3y0NdeI5VCmyqHo by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Yes but on Desktop your Mainboard also only is good for like 2-3 CPU generations if you are lucky. After that, you are looking at a RAM+Mainboard+CPU upgrade. That's just computers under capitalism
(DIR) Post #B6q40g4Dd5Bj4dAg40 by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean technically yes but again switching costs
(DIR) Post #B6q40gGyrdOdiD8rxI by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Aren't the switching costs just as high with a regular laptop
(DIR) Post #B6q4dXgSjQAIMqajcu by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star no I mean switching costs from Framework back to literally anyone elseagain, should you ever decide you don't want into Framework's ecosystem of hardware components anymore, you'll need to "start from scratch" with either a non-upgradable device or one that's in a different ecosystem entirely (because things aren't standardized)
(DIR) Post #B6q4dXqO8W6YrdEf68 by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star with a desktop, if you don't want a particular motherboard or set of RAM or GPU anymore, you can just swap 'em out (within the same generation)that fancy FW16 GPU won't really work in...any other laptop though, neither will any of framework's modules
(DIR) Post #B6q4dY0fWIKPNW2s7c by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Yes but we are talking about Laptops, a Desktop is nice but I can't take that with me in a plane cabin
(DIR) Post #B6q4l4pTtbrXC3P21I by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean even then RAM and PCI-E and all that are standardized interfaces; Yes with revisions that aren't always backwards-compatible but that's still miles ahead of even what Framework is doing, which boils down to either also a full-mainboard swap or standardized but uncommon formats (like their SODIMM replacement which I forgot the name of, or their proprietary upgradable GPU thingy for the FW16)it's a bunch of novel in-house specifications that I fear will hinder upgradability down the line
(DIR) Post #B6q4l5411ZULv8Cdfs by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia LPCAMM2 is just new, but is definitely the way forward for replaceable laptop memory for any manufacturer
(DIR) Post #B6q5yNCF1DiDsPx7Zo by alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I know, I'm just taking desktops as an example of the good that standardization can do, and in turn, illustrate what kind of issues might arise from buying into a closed modular ecosystem like framework'sIt's kind of like buying a bunch of Apple devices and they work great together, but because things aren't standardized, the second you want to switch, you have this huge switching costframework gives you a modular system that only works within their confines and their specifications. The only open specification that they've made is that one RAM standard. Everything else so far is entirely proprietary and we don't know where they're going to go with it. So the benefits of this modularity and upgradeability might degrade over time or be flipped on their head. Which would then nullify one of the reasons why you want to buy one of these in the first place.
(DIR) Post #B6q5yNP0Flv8VzvJT6 by star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia The only thing I am genuinely worried about is build quality. The other stuff are non-arguments to me; "what if Dell uses the intel management engine to permanently fry your own laptop", yes, any company could do this, big companies are inherently soulless because of their profit incentive which is the opposite of having rigid values that you uphold. It's catering to your own needs, to shareholders, to increasing or decreasing a number. This "this can perspectively" happen is true of any for-profit company ever and thus not really a convincing argument for me in this regard. The build quality I have consistently been appalled by, and I would really like to see it improve, for the sake of everyone. But then also, this has also been true of every laptop manufacturer ever; see: Intel MacBooks and their notorious thermal throttling which made them so hot, they were borderline dangerous to use. Or the infamous butterfly keyboard. And now, 7 years later, everyone is hailing the MacBook Neo as a revolutionary device for computing in terms of monetary accessibilityBut all of these problems are inherent to a) capitalism and b) in this case, a new manufacturer, bringing two 1st-gen products to market. That's always a gamble, and how they dealt with it has been appalling, but only the same level of appalling (if not slightly better) than any other major manufacturer in existence has also ever been guilty of.
(DIR) Post #B6q6D45KMCTwwmixmK by stellavie@tech.lgbt
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@star @alina competition in liberal capitalism feels like prisoners dilemma and a race to the bottom pf standards and morale. whoever abuses more (and gets away with it) wins. be a monopoly and you can leech infinitely
(DIR) Post #B6qnVlQUFYgAbpmgS0 by annaaurora@pony.social
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@alexia @star MNT laptops are fucking chonkers thought it is pretty cool that they got a RISC CPUs and expose individual battery cells to users
(DIR) Post #B6qnXiSSFz9JyydSoi by star@amazonawaws.com
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@annaaurora @alexia Yeah MNT laptops are cool but not what I am looking for personally
(DIR) Post #B6qoEr1KIVt4zTW4Po by kate@social.treehouse.systems
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@star ehw, that's good to know! i don't need a new laptop right now, but the other day i looked at the t14s gen 6 because they are arm and quite repairable (ifixit 9/10). that could have been a nice option, but for the price they're selling the build quality must be very good to be acceptable...
(DIR) Post #B6qoErDNZhWpar9hCa by star@amazonawaws.com
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@kate Yes, I also really liked that about them, the chipset and specs and repairability are really nice! But the entire thing is made of plastic, the keyboard flexes, the trackpad is god awful (not even a glass one for this price??), the entire thing creaks when flexing, the screen is okay, the speakers are awful... But the keyboard is very nice! But yes, for that price, you usually tend to get much better build quality from other vendors.
(DIR) Post #B6qoIIWCW8938ubEbw by nyovaya@transfem.social
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@star@fed.amazonawaws.com @alexia@starlightnet.work I mean they could just lie like every other company selling devices because people are dependent on them and will have to buy one either way
(DIR) Post #B6qoMiM4OoqaQpy0rQ by annaaurora@pony.social
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@alexia @star would be nice if there was a laptop equivalent of ATX
(DIR) Post #B6qoMjDbBnfJ6r0lIO by annaaurora@pony.social
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@alexia @star but maybe this wouldn't work because the tight integration laptops are expected to have would force a very particular design which not all vendors would be on board with