Post B6YsD4IsMeKLDT6F6G by alienghic@timeloop.cafe
 (DIR) More posts by alienghic@timeloop.cafe
 (DIR) Post #B6YdVJ0CxDqshibdJI by civodul@toot.aquilenet.fr
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       I’m chewing on this: Lisp is touted as a “programmable programming language”, removing restrictions to what programmers can express.What does it mean in a world where “programmers don’t write a line of code”, as sold by AI vendors?More generally, what’s the point of designing a programming language in that world?#nihilism
       
 (DIR) Post #B6YgJr3EpqWEgzFrVI by leeg@fosstodon.org
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       @civodul hopefully so that humans can understand, and explain, what software does, and the gap to what it should do (even if they don’t directly read the code, it still is the readable specification that they base their judgement on)
       
 (DIR) Post #B6YitzYisekPPcLBvk by luca@lucamatei.com
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       @civodulThere are people / companies who do believe there's a place for designing languages for AI to write, such as Vercelhttps://zerolang.ai/(Not that I support or even think it's a good idea. But the more extreme end of the spectrum does and gas the answer to your "designing a programming language in an AI first world")
       
 (DIR) Post #B6YitzjMF7FpwbJgVU by civodul@toot.aquilenet.fr
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       @luca Still, it looks like just another programming language, no?“zerolang favors explicit capabilities and standard-library APIs over syntax for every convenience” actually sounds a lot like Lisp or Smalltalk.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6YmqWCxwwkFKVlOOO by njoseph@social.masto.host
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       @civodul Joy. Fun. Excitement. Creative Expression.Let the clanker write Enterprise Go/Java all day. We can write Lisp for our own enjoyment.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6YsD4IsMeKLDT6F6G by alienghic@timeloop.cafe
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       @civodul the end of Fahrenheit 451 had the protagonist escaping his anti book culture to a counterculture of people who had memorized books to save literature from their societies anti intellectualism.I feel like there will always be some people who want to program with understanding even as the rich try to replace all of their employees with machines.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6Yt3T7XL8kvF9mZ04 by lykso@tiny.tilde.website
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       @civodul Don't center dominance, center longevity. Dominance fades, but the really useful, right-headed stuff persists. E.g., the Roman Empire is long dead, but we still use the math Euclid came up with.Progress is not linear.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6Z1clcJMVkCNTWGBc by fmn@mastodon.social
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       @civodul not sure if it helps, but i guess people making artisanal bread or simply baking bread, sharing sourdough starters, recipes, in era of gigantic "bread" factories, are in kind of similar situation? (one of 9817451939 ways of looking at it)
       
 (DIR) Post #B6aRP7uGU8jJQ527do by pjotrprins@mastodon.social
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       @civodul Not writing code is not what is happening any time soon. Agents can do the plumbing and Guix is perfect for that - much in Guix is plumbing, to the point of firing up machines. But we still need programmers and Lisp for the exceptional ideas and implementations, such as your g-exp, Dave's hoot, Christine's goblins...I find the discussion very muddled, mostly because people don't combine strengths of humans and machines, but look only at weaknesses.  As if we still *want* donkey carts.