Post B6L6f6kHYasy2lkCZM by neauoire@merveilles.town
 (DIR) More posts by neauoire@merveilles.town
 (DIR) Post #B6KXr57nuZGq63ijPk by aartaka@merveilles.town
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       Folx, what are the easiest ways to create GUIs? I want to steal ideas from there for my own UI toolkit 🙃I don’t consider WYSIWYG/no-code editors for now, maybe later?I mean, HTML is one of the big things and is fun to play with, but we have to acknowledge downsides: non-immediateness of the syntax, need for JS for “rich” GUIs, and inability to speak to the system directly from HTML.#programming #GUI #HTML
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KXr5Lz3qc4o2M3W4 by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @aartaka using sprites ✊
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KY9tFEJ21kkkA7s0 by zyd@yap.zyd.lol
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       @neauoire @aartaka I associate sprites with pixel art, what do you mean by using sprites for GUIs?
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KY9tRHaDfVM7nkem by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @zyd @aartaka I paint all my GUIs with sprites, dropdowns? sprites, textbox? sprites, outlines? sprites, everything sprites.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KYKJcz4Ks1TUFDaC by zyd@yap.zyd.lol
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       @neauoire @aartaka sprites: the ultimate
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KYKJogMqEC3liYoi by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @zyd @aartaka ✊
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KYS3DjxDswuC7psO by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @ekaitz_zarraga @zyd @aartaka it's not, it's just painting sprites..
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KbgpEWXatbjMEEJU by aartaka@merveilles.town
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       @neauoire yeah, making games in CHIP8 was fun with these 8x8 sprites. Accessibility though…
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KpAqmOefFicNifpo by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @ekaitz_zarraga it depends what kind of program it is, and what kind of accessiblity you're trying to have :)
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KpDCXYii8Ogdtsye by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @shitpostalotl @aartaka what do you have in mind?
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KphGd05Q2k3ImYFM by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @ekaitz_zarraga screen readers navigate the GUI trees normally. That has very little to do with rendering, but if you really want to consider accessibility, designing the interfaces so that things aren't nested is pretty good, I always found navigating in and out of nested UIs with screen readers a nightmare.For example, I use manifests for menu, here's the one for left: https://git.sr.ht/~rabbits/left/tree/main/item/src/left.tal#L68
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KyvwImq6uywYOlCy by shitpostalotl@axfedi.derg.rest
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       @neauoire @aartaka the standard way to approach this problem would probably be exposing an accessibility tree that a screen reader could use, but i'm honestly curious about what the 100rabbits take on blind accessible software would be.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6KyvwiJJDKoDiL8zY by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @shitpostalotl @aartaka since most of our tools are graphic novels, drawing programs and design tools, unfortunately I think the problem lies beyond what computer software alone are able to do.But if I was to make drawing software for the blind, I think I'd make sure it's entirely usable with a d-pad, no nested menus, no menu trees, and very minimal sets of tools, no vector drawing, grid based pixel art and very few or no colors, most of all I think I'd ask a blind person what their vision of a drawing program should be like.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6L6f6KP6oBYkVdXEW by shitpostalotl@axfedi.derg.rest
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       @neauoire @aartaka When you said "screen readers navigate the GUI trees normally" in the other thread, did you mean that screen readers such as Orca can read the manifest data in Uxn programs to make then navigable? I admit there is much about this technology that I don't understand.
       
 (DIR) Post #B6L6f6kHYasy2lkCZM by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @shitpostalotl @aartaka they could yeah, I'd need to expose the manifest, I haven't found a standard that I'm entirely happy with yet, so every program has a slightly different manifest. But that's only part of the puzzle, using left with a screen reader, even if your SR could inject the manifest would be a miserable experience, the LEAP key motion alone would be totally disorienting to a blind reader. It would be like trying to do stuff in GIMP, it does a LOT, and a lot has to do with something a blind person would never need, like highlight, nav bar controls, various front-end things.You should try playing with Fenrir, it's CLI but it's fun and it gives a good idea of where they fall short quickly. I was told recently that VT-100 was slightly more accessible, and I've been meaning to look into it :)
       
 (DIR) Post #B6L7UXLOQKpBJ3cr1E by neauoire@merveilles.town
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       @shitpostalotl @aartaka sure :) https://git.stormux.org/storm/fenrir