Post B4LQtzcYEaKRlyTLWq by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #B4KROtyJ5prG4UQXE8 by domi@donotsta.re
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considering that gnome just deprecated X11, i have a weird feeling that my life is about to get even harder and more painful, unless I choose to conform to one of the mainstream ideal linux GUIswayland will be the thing which finally kills all the small WMs that still remain. I consider that to be a cultural disaster.
(DIR) Post #B4KRTsALEcUbv0QUkK by domi@donotsta.re
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preemptive “fuck you” to everyone who wants to tell me to move to $DE that has wayland support. missing the point.
(DIR) Post #B4KRgIasnlFBMIlZ1E by 23n27@dgc.social
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@domi https://isaacfreund.com/blog/river-window-management/ was making the rounds recently and I'm so glad somebody is finally fixing this
(DIR) Post #B4KSR2sp1zXCF9RoK8 by artemist@mildlyfunctional.gay
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@domi i wonder if it would be possible to run wayland applications on something like wayback. would likely require incredible levels of hacks to convince xwayland that the windows are x11
(DIR) Post #B4KSR32kR5TSjw5jnM by domi@donotsta.re
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@artemist i thought that wayback supported wayland windows natively, wasn’t that part of the point?
(DIR) Post #B4KYZDPkMOkiwk7uym by dragoonaethis@mstdn.social
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@domi nah, I don't think it'll kill small compositors. The existing "meta" of X11 WMs will very likely die because it's a massive effort to detach a project like that from X11, but with libs like wlroots, swc or smithay the bar to clear is muuuch lower than reinventing the whole userspace display stack from scratch again.If anything, X11 has to finally die for real instead of being kept on perpetual life support for those smaller WMs to kick off for real.
(DIR) Post #B4KYZDcVawxdaK66s4 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@dragoonaethis@domi The bar has been lowered by wlroots & co for almost a decade now. If we're not seeing an explosion of small compositors yet, that'd suggest the lowered bar is still too high.
(DIR) Post #B4LCvG4r8Un5k8Q9wW by valpackett@social.treehouse.systems
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@wolf480pl @dragoonaethis @domi we have sooo many compositors and many good/maintained compositors. mutter, kwin, cosmic-comp, niri, sway, swayfx, wayfire, labwc, wlmaker, phoc, cage, gamescope, pinnacle, jay, river-classic, river, etc. that's all without mentioning lots of abandoned ones and the fash one. If that's not an explosion I don't know what would be one??
(DIR) Post #B4LCvGNzzK6ShVNRmS by domi@donotsta.re
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@valpackett @wolf480pl @dragoonaethis i don’t think you’ve seen how many WMs X11 has? and real WMs, not glorified single-purpose hacks like cage and gamescope.regardless of the quantity: let any of those go unmaintained for five years, and suddenly you have a codebase that doesn’t compile and requires a substantial amount of work to fix. meanwhile i’ve resurrected X11 WMs that were stale for 20+ years with a diff of 3 lines…
(DIR) Post #B4LDFOpoHntCh9zHOa by domi@donotsta.re
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@wolf480pl @dragoonaethis not looking forward to one of those libs getting deprecated X years from now :/
(DIR) Post #B4LDktDNNqaHtW1f8K by leo@60228.dev
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@domi @artemist no the point is just that it allows running an x11 wm without relying on unmaintained code
(DIR) Post #B4LDktScTAmGen9ptQ by domi@donotsta.re
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@leo @artemist seems like a missed opportunity if anything
(DIR) Post #B4LDkzykEe2WsAEZnc by leo@60228.dev
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@domi @artemist really i think it might be easier to have a separate wayland -> x11 bridge that doesn't care if it's running on plain xorg or wayback?
(DIR) Post #B4LDoM3Cd3CCCDv4cq by FantasmitaAsex@todon.eu
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@domi it's sad. But we can't pretend to have everything working like in the 90's forever. Sometimes it's necessary to break a egg to make a omelette.However, you can keep running X11 apps over Wayland, as there is a X11 server that runs over Wayland.... Even window managers.PD: I say this as a person that likes sometimes to play with old X11 wms
(DIR) Post #B4LDoMVYvbsfcBBipU by domi@donotsta.re
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@FantasmitaAsex But we can’t pretend to have everything working like in the 90’s forever.says you and only you lmao
(DIR) Post #B4LPy5MSjWLOmTKo2C by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
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@valpackett @wolf480pl @dragoonaethis @domi and the new river alone has like 15 window managers built on top of its protocol, all of them created even before it was officially released a few days ago: https://codeberg.org/river/wiki/src/branch/main/pages/wm-list.md
(DIR) Post #B4LQtzcYEaKRlyTLWq by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
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@IngaLovindewhich kinda proves the point that implementing a whole compositor is too much work, and there is a need for a way to implement a WM separately from a compositor @valpackett @dragoonaethis @domi
(DIR) Post #B4LSPiJgCt1nKDKpNo by domi@donotsta.re
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@wolf480pl @IngaLovinde @valpackett @dragoonaethis to make my point clear:it’s good that river is a thing nowit’s a shame that it took what, 16+ years until wayland got something like it?it’s also a shame that I’m only hearing about it because of this threadthere are some conclusions that could be drawn from the 2nd point, but i’m not interested in exploring them in this thread