Post B2cdbazVfQLw0Xu9ZI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #B2bVIJL25AIcxtIzOy by ricci@discuss.systems
2026-01-24T06:43:26Z
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New type of data up on https://arewedecentralizedyet.online/ - what does the software ecosystem in the Fediverse look like? This is an area where the Fediverse is more centralized, with Mastodon quite dominant, but there are of course many other suites in use as well!
(DIR) Post #B2bVuALByzyQ42Qkzo by ricci@discuss.systems
2026-01-24T08:04:22Z
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@mellifluousbox @matrix @signalapp @FediThing yeah my understanding is that the shape of the Signal network is sufficiently different that it wouldn't be a great point of comparison. And it's probably private enough to make the equivalent measurements impossible to capture, for good reasons
(DIR) Post #B2bVuBug8XxAwO2bwm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T08:18:57Z
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@ricci> the shape of the Signal networkThere's no network to measure the decentralisation of. Signal is a single service, controlled by a single operator, hosted on hyperscalers (AWS and a couple of others). It's 100% centralised, by design.But like @mellifluousbox, I'd love to see the decentralisation of the @matrix network added to your site. Also XMPP and Nostr.@FediThing
(DIR) Post #B2bYb9kgFQvub8yna4 by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T08:47:15Z
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@strypey The maintainers of of the Molly fork are currently on a project called Flatline, an independent Signal server. It's said to be ready for first releases in the 2nd quarter of 2026. I'm curious. Especially if/how it will communicate with the Signal server itself as this always was not the case. I don't know if that policy has changed. Also it's said it'll work just work with Molly (Android), as long as nobody will develop another client.@ricci @mellifluousbox @matrix @FediThing
(DIR) Post #B2cdbZVLC6ctOgmXuC by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T09:08:08Z
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@FediThing That is the interesting question. Signal itself always refused that. But Moxie left Signal and there might be a change in that case. I'm sure the forks will communicate. Otherwise the project would not make sense at all.@strypey @ricci @mellifluousbox @matrix
(DIR) Post #B2cdbazVfQLw0Xu9ZI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T21:19:55Z
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(1/2)@morph > The maintainers of of the Molly fork are currently on a project called Flatline, an independent Signal serverI don't understand the purpose of this. You can set up an independent Signal server right now by standing up an instance of the server code Signal publish;https://softwaremill.com/what-ive-learned-from-signal-server-source-code/ (trying to avoid linking to GritHub and this is an interesting tour through the architecture).Therefore ...@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2cdsnzOarFpFB3d1k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T21:23:05Z
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(2/2)@morph> I'm sure the forks will communicate. Otherwise the project would not make sense at allAgreed. There's simply be no point in reimplementing otherwise.Hopefully using an existing federation standard like XMPP or Matrix. In the best case scenario, this proof-of-concept will convince the post-Moxie management of Signal to embrace interoperability. Pressure from EU regulators enforcing DMA is probably nudging them in that direction anyway.
(DIR) Post #B2cfqwOMa6NMdKyUCW by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T21:45:06Z
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@strypey I guess their main goal is to get a server setup without the need of third party stuff (Google, AWS, etc) that you'd need for a an own Signal server, which (as I understood it and was the case in the past) would anyway not communicate with their official servers for security reasons. Yet with Molly you have a FOSS client (also on tablet) and with Molly Socket you can have UnifiedPush instead of FCM. So they build sth. on server side to fill the gap. @FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2ci42HADTAUYSyl4i by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T22:08:13Z
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@strypey I'd anyway hope for a "Renaissance" of XMPP. For server load and usability. I prefer XMPP to [matrix] which is pretty good of course, especially for voice and video (I personally don't use that). Though [matrix] is expensive regarding ressources. In the past you saw people accepted XMPP when it was commonly in use by many providers. Meanwhile with OMEMO you have out-of-the-box encryption, compared to OTR annoyance in the past. P.S. AFAIK the matrix protocol is not a w3 standard.
(DIR) Post #B2cjTgcJSwsCrefNT6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T22:25:44Z
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(1/2)@morph > matrix is expensive regarding resourcesI'm not convinced. I'd like to see benchmarking data on the performance of a 2026 matrix server running Matrix 2.0, and an XMPP server using sufficient XEPs to do everything that matrix server does, *including* fully decentralised rooms. I doubt the resource use would be much different.
(DIR) Post #B2cjk7Xx6rrD1DSme0 by nicoco@pouet.pas.la
2026-01-24T22:28:40Z
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@strypeyNo you cannot do it right now, which is why the flatline project is actually about trying to actually deploy the server-side code. The Signal server repo is not "hey look you can deploy this, follow the instructions of the readme", it seems.https://nlnet.nl/project/Flatline/
(DIR) Post #B2cjljp6Heza1MFtFw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T22:28:51Z
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(2/2)@morph> matrix protocol is not a w3 standardAt the risk of splitting hairs, neither is XMPP, it's an IETF standard. But yes, Matrix has not yet been reviewed by an independent standards body. It would be good to see matrix standardised at W3C, since it's effectively a web protocol.That said, Matrix Foundation folks have shown they're more than happy to participate in standards processes. Such as the MLS working group at IETF.
(DIR) Post #B2ck25sM3q6335Zo6i by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T22:31:59Z
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@morph > So they build sth. on server side to fill the gapBut why? It's like Delta Chat building Chatserver. They're both reinventing a wheel that was already invented as XMPP and then reinvented as matrix. Why not just make Molly (or DC) work as a client for XMPP and/or Matrix servers instead of writing a standalone server from scratch?I guess they have their reasons, and I'm curious to know what they are.@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2ck95TXwm7xppJ7h2 by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T22:33:14Z
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@strypey For a single user it should not be a problem to run. I have Prosody, Synypse, Nextcloud and Mastodon (the worst ressource eater) on the same machine. No performance issues but the database...
(DIR) Post #B2ckjHGhZxCMpoYYDY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-24T22:39:47Z
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@nicoco > you cannot do it right nowOk, I stand corrected. #MeaCulpa> the flatline project is ... about trying to ... deploy the server-side codeBut why?https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/115952446340769564The NlNet link mentions;"... proposals for further research into decentralizing Signal."https://nlnet.nl/project/Flatline/So that suggests a motivation, and one I'm sympathetic to. Maybe once Flatline is working as a PoC, the devs will start implementing an interop standard like XMPP or Matrix?#chat #Signal
(DIR) Post #B2clEioRDjFJEqKVtI by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-24T22:45:19Z
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@strypey As said I'd be happy just with XMPP. It's just still things like the Thunderbird chat implementation does not support OMEMO, for Pidgin you'd need Lurch for OMEMEO. Not to speak of PGP. It's not just yourself you need for a chat infrastructure. You need somebody who wants it, too. :DTherefore I'm grateful to have Signal (or Molly) at least. Quite some of my (so-called) RL people use it. Even my Mum (>70yo) prefers it to WhatsApp or Skype (RIP).@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2ctjDe9wXvJBpZjM0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-25T00:20:38Z
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@morph > Therefore I'm grateful to have Signal (or Molly) at least. Quite some of my (so-called) RL people use itThat's a reason for Molly to exist, so people can access the Signal silo with a fully libre client, available in F-Droid. What I'm asking is, why reimplement the Signal *server*? I guessed at a motivation here;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/115952476995962847@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2cu3GMPYzINOjpblI by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-25T00:24:11Z
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@strypey I can't give a proper answer. Get in for information at their channel.https://matrix.to/#/#mollyim:matrix.org@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2cyJqLBxNI1RHQGJ6 by morph@morphnet.de
2026-01-25T00:38:22Z
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@strypey Last but not least, call your Mum on the the telephone. Make a date. Take a bus (or train?). Have a lunch or dinner. Perfect, too ... not, isn`t it?¯\_(ツ)_/¯@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2cyJraTK36fIxZylM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-25T01:12:02Z
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@morph > call your Mum on the the telephoneThat's what I do. Some of my family use Meta Messenger and WhatSapp, so I communicate with them using SMS and mobile calling, and email. I had some success with getting them to try Delta Chat, but it didn't stick. They're not even interested in trying XMPP or Matrix.@FediThing @ricci @mellifluousbox
(DIR) Post #B2eolkFXIs76kOuPAm by nicoco@pouet.pas.la
2026-01-25T07:13:40Z
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@strypey I don't know the people being flatline, so I can't speak for their motivations.I wish they reach a point where I can `podman run flatline` so it makes developing https://codeberg.org/slidge/slidgnal easier for @alex and me :-)
(DIR) Post #B2eyjqyaK2PUZWiUoi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2026-01-26T00:26:12Z
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@nicoco > I wish they reach a point where I can `podman run flatline`Maybe you could ask them about that in their chat room?https://matrix.to/#/#mollyim:matrix.org@alex