Post B1WRobfpd3EotwzrWK by elithebearded@fed.qaz.red
 (DIR) More posts by elithebearded@fed.qaz.red
 (DIR) Post #B1WMFxpEmIGnhJ3eYi by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T22:45:15Z
       
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       @nytpu was it really federated though? Would it still work if each server admin enforced their local rules?
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WMzufqpKaVFDZsy8 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2025-12-22T22:53:29.743091Z
       
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       @wolf480pl @nytpu Yeah, see EFNet where depending on which server you're connecting from you have different access restrictions (although I think those are rare, but I barely use EFNet).
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WNMgMWCi6pW9ONs0 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T22:57:42Z
       
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       @lanodan @nytpu Hmm ok so a server can decide to not carry some channels, or ban some users...But all servers still have to agree on who is an op on each channel.Which means a malicious server can mess up the whole network.And server interconnection is transitive, which means adding a new server to the network requires consensus.Sounds kinda like EU...
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WNn8c9ml4sfZK1w0 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2025-12-22T23:02:23.313460Z
       
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       @wolf480pl @nytpu Yeah although pretty sure malicious servers would get banned, the EF stands for Eris-Free after all.> And server interconnection is transitive, which means adding a new server to the network requires consensus.I feel like you got it wrong. For typical IRC server interconnections you peer with 1+ server, not whole network.(Of course for say Libera.Chat it's effectively whole network since it's an organised network rather than something more like a flock)
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WO1InWijrgJ5OVYO by i@declin.eu
       2025-12-22T23:04:59.298036Z
       
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       @lanodan @wolf480pl @nytpu there's also specs like http://www.loper-os.org/pub/pest/pest_draft.html that seek to fix this and push it even further
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WOBJCo3kTmT1zS2C by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T23:06:50Z
       
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       @lanodan @nytpu no I meanLet's say there's ANet.If I run a server, and one of the ANet servers agrees to let me connect to it, everything I send over that S2S connection propagates to the whole ANet.I'm part of ANet now.If I then let Eris connect to my server, Eris becomes connected to ANet.Now, if this was EFNet not ANet, that would violate the Eris-free invariant, so EFNet would need to apply secondary sanctions and disconnect from my server, in order to stay Eris-free.
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WOQWcyRGj0RGUAF6 by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T23:09:35Z
       
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       @lanodan @nytpu IOW, Eris's ability to wreck havoc in an IRC network is not limited to the server it's directly connected to.
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WOWx9KkB5uQsgcwC by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T23:10:45Z
       
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       @lanodan @nytpu or, to be more historically accurate, if Eris accepts s2s connections from everyone, then the damage one can cause when connecting to Eris is not limited to Eris.
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WOj6hl2l39XhaFdY by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2025-12-22T23:12:50.007567Z
       
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       @wolf480pl @nytpu Yeah, but that's not consensus, it's moderation done after the fact.Consensus is based on consent, in other words approval, in a way the consensus of EFNet was banning eris, rather than approving some list of servers (the common approach taken by libera.chat among many others).
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WPJVYw6I3z3voZjk by wolf480pl@mstdn.io
       2025-12-22T23:19:32Z
       
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       @lanodan @nytpu ok I made a mental shortcut.*If* you want to guarantee that your server will not be harmed by a malicious server, *then* you need a veto power over every server that joins the network.So if we assume that every server in the network wants such a guarantee, then each of them needs a veto power, which means the only way to provide that guarantee is by requiring consensus whenever a new server wants to join.
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WQ9rB4yrhF9vcMD2 by lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me
       2025-12-22T23:28:54.255678Z
       
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       @wolf480pl @nytpu Yeah, if you want it as a guarantee, and it's effectively why most IRC networks don't copy the EFNet no-organisation flow.And thankfully IRC clients transformed into something akin to RSS/Atom readers.
       
 (DIR) Post #B1WRobfpd3EotwzrWK by elithebearded@fed.qaz.red
       2025-12-22T23:47:32Z
       
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       @wolf480pl @nytpu Operator permissions are explicitly called out as "dangerous" in RFC-1459