Post AyMAtf7LEDfL3lOU88 by TrimTab@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by TrimTab@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AxYDyizCiLqaEWqN04 by Gargron@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T04:30:36Z
17 likes, 20 repeats
"Sideloading" is the rentseeker word for "being able to run software of your choosing on a computing device you purchased". There is no reasonable case for an operating system developer having a say over what programs you run on your hardware.#Android #Google
(DIR) Post #AxYtccaxzW0Q7GeLcO by stux@mstdn.social
2025-08-26T12:40:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron @altstore đź’Ş
(DIR) Post #AxYwG4FPJYCp52VDxw by StaticR@guild.pmdcollab.org
2025-08-26T05:37:58Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Imagine buying something from a local store instead of amazon was called "sideshopping" and there's a massive campaign to delegitimize buying items from stores not approved by amazon. Completely absurd. Why accept that exact ideology when it comes to installing software on your phone?
(DIR) Post #AxZBL35UYLRKF8hL7o by Zergling_man@sacred.harpy.faith
2025-08-26T15:58:31.923650Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron android itself is nonfree software, so it's kind of a lost cause anyway
(DIR) Post #Axaj7CLqu8j8WIsTEu by Suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com
2025-08-27T09:51:51.273270Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@Zergling_man @Gargron There is https://replicant.us/ which hopefully won't implement such restrictions (unfortunately it seems to implement he restriction of apks requiring whatever signature to install - which makes some apk edits a pain in the ass).
(DIR) Post #AyMAtf7LEDfL3lOU88 by TrimTab@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T05:12:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron I agree in spirit, but man... Its only 50% rentseeking... My elderly parents and computer illiterate siblings and coworkers would get in trouble fast if they weren't constrained by 3 software platforms: mint software manager, android play, and MS whatchamacallit. I have pounded it into their heads: never download software candy from strangers. (I live in an anti-apple pocket of the world)But then, i guess all three of those do let you do your own thing to varying degrees.
(DIR) Post #AyMAtgPoP22D5L2kYi by taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org
2025-09-19T07:14:33.746115Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@TrimTab @Gargron There's already a thousand roadblocks and scary warnings when installing APKs manually on Android. Have you tried it recently on a modern device?
(DIR) Post #B0bds9jPJfsMMzep3g by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:04:06.501245Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@TrimTab @Gargron > MS> android play, They should be constrained by^W^Wusing * @fdroidorg * instead.You have taught them to use malware (MS/google play)
(DIR) Post #B0be1pL1zat218rpMe by ahltorp@mastodon.nu
2025-08-26T07:32:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@TrimTab @Gargron Yes, people seem unable to keep in mind two things at once:1. Apple and Google are somewhat protecting users by locking them in to “approved” apps.2. By financially placing themselves between the users and the apps, their incentives are in the wrong place, which hurts users.
(DIR) Post #B0be1pqE7bq9ZtSjzM by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:05:50.766146Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@ahltorp @TrimTab @Gargron Those "approved" apps are pretty always proprietary / deny users at least one fundamental freedomThey are 100% harmful.
(DIR) Post #B0beCD16oJbWLqV0im by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:07:44.889423Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@mbpaz @Gargron DJI apps are proprietary software and should be considered like any other kind of malware : any device to have them installed should be factory reset to a known safe state, or recycled if this is not possible.
(DIR) Post #B0beCmHzfWuHkLfUOm by adventure_tense@mapstodon.space
2025-08-26T05:26:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Even the term "Side loading", makes it sound non-standard and risky. Which of course, it doesnt have to be. #AOSP #OpenSource #GrapheneOS
(DIR) Post #B0beCu5Wflgfvzte4m by adventure_tense@mapstodon.space
2025-08-27T18:40:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron This is about a platform mandating DRM, to control/manipulate revenue streams.I think Google (and Apple) are fully capable to manage platform security without gatekeeping access to our devices. They could improve OS immutability, or better admin rights without root privileges. As irritating as they can be, even the banks have developed secure financial platforms that still allow us to purchase WHAT we want, from WHO we want.#OpenSource #NoDRM #DeGoogle #GrapheneOS #DeApple #AOSP
(DIR) Post #B0beENceLnFnp55sq8 by mojo@aus.social
2025-08-26T05:49:01Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Once you’ve bought the hardware, it’s yours, not a lease where the vendor still dictates your choices. Calling it sideloading makes it sound like something shady, when it’s just freedom to install what you want.#freesoftware #digitalrights
(DIR) Post #B0beFtDONKu45y02WO by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:08:25.002148Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@neovolny @Gargron plenty of people care. You just aren't following them.
(DIR) Post #B0beHbiEQ8YUOJFAJ6 by elricofmelnibone@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T06:51:42Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Bold of you to assume that your phone is really "yours". I'm sure that by buying one Google owns your soul and that of your firstborn.We need more competition in the Mobile OS market, and Google needs to be hit with a big enough antitrust suit to cripple them for a couple of decades.
(DIR) Post #B0beKemhSHQimtmu0m by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:09:17.117926Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@elricofmelnibone @Gargron Reminder: google has competition https://puri.sm/
(DIR) Post #B0beLARtj9nuzeIk1w by jwz@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T07:30:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Hills I will die on!
(DIR) Post #B0beNlwdI33Jrav3my by wall_e@ioc.exchange
2025-08-26T07:38:03Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron the whole case of why I've always had an Android phone: I'm a dev, if I want something I can write and install it.I almost never do of course, but it's completely fucked up for Google to expect me to register an account with their service to receive their blessed key material in order to install my stupid side project on my own device
(DIR) Post #B0beOI6JjZoTathFKK by zleap@qoto.org
2025-08-26T07:42:30Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Thanks for the explanation as I had no idea what this mean,I think we need to remember when you buy devices they are NOT your devices, you buy hardware, and a license to run the OS that dictates how the people who write the OS want you to do things.
(DIR) Post #B0beSNjkimgaET5oQ4 by m@martinh.net
2025-08-26T09:18:14Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron As a $DEVICE_OWNER I would like to $UNLOCK_BOOTLOADER so that I can $BECOME_UNGOVERNABLE :goose_peek:
(DIR) Post #B0beSdBbHWsG9BElPM by jchkoch@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T10:54:49Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Support free software #fsf and #gnu
(DIR) Post #B0beoplfBTJfXUgzei by przemelek@pol.social
2025-08-26T10:56:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron I'd argue there's a critical reason besides rent-seeking: security.It's a genuine conflict between user rights and the need to protect the average person. Phones hold our banking apps, 2FA tokens, mics, cameras, and countless secrets.When a sideloaded app steals data, the user doesn't say, "My sideloaded app failed." They say, "My Android/iPhone got hacked." The OS developer takes the blame.Android's approach—allowing it, but behind a clear security warning—seems like a decent compromise in this difficult balancing act.
(DIR) Post #B0beoqYEGuAFy7PmM4 by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:14:41.728544Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@przemelek @Gargron > s a genuine conflict between user rights and the need to protect the average person. No, there isn't. The average person needs to be protected FROM google.> Phones hold our banking apps,The banking apps themselves, which are proprietary to a one ARE what users need to be protected against. Users should be able to access crypto from their phones> mics, cameras, Which on modern hardware (such as https://puri.sm/ librem5 ) you can physically turn off> and countless secrets.And giving all your countless secrets to some proprietary malware vendor like google /samsung is not the answer.> 2FA tokens,there is no 'conflict' here. Keeping 2FA tokens contained enough that the user & only the user has access to them isn't something that sideloading does a damn thing about either way
(DIR) Post #B0bepbx02cuAyYMizQ by cmthiede@social.vivaldi.net
2025-08-26T11:17:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron has your Doctor asked you if they can Sideload Copilot into your visit yet?
(DIR) Post #B0beq4qcbQ2CbAbXZg by stefano@mastodon.bsd.cafe
2025-08-26T11:37:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron "You purchased" is the key. The goal is not to buy, but to pay a fee and lose ownership of the device as well.
(DIR) Post #B0bfAJb5TSJ88PzM6C by jmcclure@sciences.social
2025-08-26T11:52:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron I agree: if someone buys a "computer" or a general purpose device, your point certainly holds.But on the other side of a fine line I imagine (perhaps older) game consoles: when the original Nintendo came out, that company was not expected to help you run Atari software on their hardware.They'd not prevent it - if you could figure out it, good on you. But Nintendo shouldn't be expected to make that work.Not-supporting versus actively-preventing is the key difference for me.
(DIR) Post #B0bfAKhVN52FYbzzk0 by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:18:35.062202Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jmcclure @Gargron >They'd not prevent it Nintendo has done all kinds of things to prevent it. From licensing everything using only heavily copyright-restricted licensing to patents to working with the MPAA -- they have had their fingers ALL OVER the 'keep hackers from making things interoperate' cookie jar. And the history of their doing so goes all the way back ( Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. 1992 is just an example )ie Nintendo goes WAY further than merely passively now facilitating interoperability : proprietary lock-in has been part of their core business plan since before the first NES came off the assembly line, and have had a huge part in normalizing apple-style total control over the user and we should never forget it
(DIR) Post #B0bfD217IEx2TnSVzk by starsider@valenciapa.ws
2025-08-26T12:29:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron This is crazy because even on iPhones it's perfectly possible to install applications that are not approved by Apple in any way, by regular users with no privileges. It's a hassle (at least initially) and it has limitations, but the fact that you can and you won't be able to do the same on Android is crazy.
(DIR) Post #B0bfIf9LE5trIMzVlg by steve@mastodon.nexusuk.org
2025-08-26T13:01:57Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron There's also no reasonable case for an OS developer or app developer to have a say over whether I can have root access to my own device. Yet there are a whole shit-load of things I can't do on my phone because it is rooted.
(DIR) Post #B0bfIo2aAaqCs0tjyy by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:20:03.550737Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@steve @Gargron And every single one of those apps, if they were free software, could be fixed.The problem here is you are using unfree software that prevents you from fixing it
(DIR) Post #B0bfJG0mAu27cWGh3Q by taatm@mathstodon.xyz
2025-08-26T14:00:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron I like the term “rent seeker”.Like Jaywalker is the rent seeker for car companies.
(DIR) Post #B0bfKxECywAPwaMP4K by grishka@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T14:11:05Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron IMO the only long-term solution to this is Android getting completely separated from Google. The "annoy users into submission" approach they take with Play Protect right now is already very much overstepping.
(DIR) Post #B0bfL2eympYIn3vLzU by grishka@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T14:14:46Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron and in the longer run, our society desperately needs a technology to modify modern microelectronics at home or at least at a well-equipped repair shop.
(DIR) Post #B0bfTzEatNDYlwqcPw by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:22:10.626610Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@grishka @Gargron It's not just 'annoy users into submission' it's 'keep users from having control over the platform/rebuilding the OS'this is important to keep in mind, since if it were mere annoying prompts, if users had the ability to change the control flow of app installation (ie if they had the source code and an ability to build/run their modified build -- ie the 4 fundamental freedoms, this would be fixed very quickly given how many are annoyed by this particular antifeature)
(DIR) Post #B0bfVpFayzkuO4C1o0 by scalonnec@pouet.chapril.org
2025-08-26T14:48:51Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron It is known that sideloading is a real risk for most of Android users**The bad guy comes to your home, enable ADB debug, you let him connect your phone, you give him your pin, you let him few moment to load a naughty apk (bring coffees) and VOILÀ ! 🔥BTW I had today to clean a fully stock up to date Android (you even can install bank app on) because of a "legit" Play Store bloatware setup'd lots of other adware apks 👍
(DIR) Post #B0bfXGyLOpQsecoWPY by ElectroFetish@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T16:00:06Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Those who make these decisions have goals to make as much profit as possible. And in fact we get a regression.Debian is the friendliest system for civil society.
(DIR) Post #B0bfydcNJNBehuaRGq by tripleman@mastodon.social
2025-08-26T17:13:28Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron This list of replies is a hilarious string of people pretending that they’ve never looked at someone’s Windows machine *so completely fucked up with malware and viruses that the owner just blithely clicked on and installed* that the only solution was to nuke it from space and *buy a whole new computer*For a good fifteen years the number one reason for tossing perfectly good hardware and buying a newer Win PC was virus/malware infestation. Might still be, I have no idea.
(DIR) Post #B0bfyeJciZmWs2oygK by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:27:41.708842Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@tripleman @Gargron > that the only solution was to nuke it from space and *buy a whole new computer*Installing GNU+Linux was *always* a better solution to that, until very recently (ie until the hidden low-level proprietary software layer / BIOS's made that less effective at removing the malware)the problem was ALWAYS proprietary software frustrated the user's ability to understand what was going on, provide depth in defence and so on. The 'people installing viruses problem on windows' was ALWAYS about users not actually having control over the computer enough to do what they needed to do / understand programs they were running. "Running all executables" is a form of learned helplessness fomented BY the likes of microsoft because all of *their* executables are malware/black boxes too and so they *couldn't* teach users to not use them
(DIR) Post #B0bfzZKejPTZhkk6hk by root@sms.cybik.moe
2025-08-26T17:39:33Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron at this point I just want a fucking slab that lets me call from Linux.I want postmarketOS on an AMD Ryzen with only 64bits (dump the 32, make a bloody atom ryzen you cowards), and a pure-64 Steam build. I want a slab that lets me play anime games if I bloody want to. And deploy a Linux fleet management solution. AND JUST LET ME DO MY THING.
(DIR) Post #B0bfzuWPwsMVQJPIS8 by hariprakashj@fosstodon.org
2025-08-26T17:40:38Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron its like Toyota or ford getting to dictate who is allowed to ride/drive your car, kinda nuts that we let it happen : /
(DIR) Post #B0bg9L8YMbryZhjzyS by francis@mastodon.babb.no
2025-08-26T17:56:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron yes, but...Ma and Pa _need_ some form of sandbox. Sandboxing should be optional. But some form of sandboxing should exist when non-tech people will use computers.It's a dangerous world.
(DIR) Post #B0bg9M8EfHD3f0bG7M by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:29:36.025445Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@francis @Gargron Whatever that 'sandbox' is must protect them from actual predators (google, microsoft, apple) or they aren't fit for purpose
(DIR) Post #B0bg9grdaBPVxbznf6 by michal@vltava.cloud
2025-08-26T18:58:45Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron as programmer i do not want to be registered for ability to do my job
(DIR) Post #B0bgQFbAD1SUJvBe4G by rolenthedeep@rattodon.nexus
2025-08-26T21:56:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@GargronSideloading as a word was coined in 1990https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading#HistoricalPlease stop spreading lies to make people angry
(DIR) Post #B0bgQG3WVa8xjsSIGu by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:32:40.426828Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@rolenthedeep ...by a proprietary hardware vendor whose business was to encourage users to lock-in their files into their platform - ie since day #1, venture-capital backed sillycon valley companies were using sideloading as a means of rentseeking.the only thing that's changed since 1990 is that @Gargron explicitly is talking about software, which is of course just another kind of data
(DIR) Post #B0bgTC5FjVfUHwfFEe by yacc143@mastodon.social
2025-08-27T06:23:30Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@GargronEspecially as this newest move of Google is redundant: play protect is already built in all Google play services using phones. It already flashed and remains suspicious Appa and known malware from all sources.So how exactly is locking down the signing keys for apps that are allowed to run at all and connecting them with government ID for developers helping security? This purely an anticompetitive measure.
(DIR) Post #B0bgTpx9V2xJwPBLA8 by Qbitzerre@unbound.social
2025-08-27T08:02:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron reminds me of browser developers acting as authorities of who is trustworthy in PKI.
(DIR) Post #B0bgjk05OpAO728bcu by ahltorp@mastodon.nu
2025-11-25T14:29:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jeffcliff We can talk about this later when you have freed yourself from all ties to capitalistic society.
(DIR) Post #B0bgjl7ZEUkFaWe5vU by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:36:12.308204Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@ahltorp very clever, refusing to acknowledge reality until a perfect utopia exists, after all even the soviet union was "capitalistic" in practice.
(DIR) Post #B0bgpgS9V8HAqe6DSq by Strwpok@mastodon.world
2025-08-27T15:38:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron apart from security and privacy.
(DIR) Post #B0bgpgwdfmf8NCMYz2 by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:37:15.766029Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Strwpok @Gargron No. There is no security or privacy justification for google restricting you from running code that would give you privacy and security
(DIR) Post #B0bh7Fo7J9uVQ7kdOK by jazaval@mastodon.social
2025-08-27T18:48:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron counter-point: run your software outside this rentseekers sandbox then. it’s absolutely a bad look for them if something happens to you while in their ecosystem (randsomware, malware, identity theft, etc.)just because you own the physical memory registers doesn’t mean you’re ever making use of them without this rentseekers work and IP.
(DIR) Post #B0bh7GslJNDikovrGq by jeffcliff@shitposter.world
2025-11-25T14:40:26.459606Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jazaval @Gargron > this rentseekers work and IP.IP is not a thing https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.en.html If I own physical memory registers they are doing what I tell them to *period*. > it’s absolutely a bad look for them if something happens to you while in their ecosystem Yeah, and the 'something' that happened was Google's evilGoogle IS malware / ransomware . They hold hostage our ability to communicate via email, for example."Identity theft" is a propaganda term that describes what happens when large data providers (such as google) manage data about users in such a way that they hold the user accountable for their own mistakes.
(DIR) Post #B0bhHZUOzAPvMJRvW4 by maxoakland@mastodon.social
2025-09-02T21:07:35Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron Exactly. And it's also a huge weak link when it comes to protecting people from government censorship
(DIR) Post #B0bhHm646xfsSbAAt6 by Ronanon@mastodon.social
2025-09-13T06:42:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron exactement , a croire qu'ils veulent tous faire des systèmes totalement fermé et intrusifs. Je me demande parfois s'il ne cherchent pas a dévelloper le hacking autour de leur Os ..
(DIR) Post #B0bhIvTEkHOdp1YBMW by DazzaJay@aus.social
2025-09-29T07:31:23Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gargron sideloading is a bullshit word made up to make doing what you want with what you own sound more scary. Let's call it what it has always been called on PC. Installing Software.