Post Axdo4abRMe6i6vck6q by bigblen@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by bigblen@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #AxcWJF1trXmtDHsRw8 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T02:37:32Z
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OK, gonna put this one out to the fediverse: has anyone any experience with sending kids to high school in #NZ with a #Linux laptop rather than the suggested #Chromebook. It will probably be #KDE Neon as the distro of choice.Did it cause any issues? Did anyone even notice the difference? (For reference, I've been a Linux desktop and server user for ~20 years, so tech support is not an issue. In fact Linux is the easiest option).#education #NewZealand #BYOD
(DIR) Post #AxcWJGFlJUTD0ZN2BM by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:37:40Z
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@rob I know kids who've done this. Talk to @bigblen - he can advise. I think it's a *great* idea for a confident kid. They'll leave their peers in the dust.
(DIR) Post #AxcWJN79nskKHuOlF2 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T02:43:50Z
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Further context: the kid in question is already a #Linux user (for nearly 3 years), so a #Chromebook is probably a downgrade for them.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRFAZE7R1xnkNJA by thomasbeagle@mastodon.nz
2025-08-28T02:46:32Z
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@rob I considered such ideas because I didn't like the idea of the school having management, but then the school provided a Chromebook and the relevant accounts and everything else. So all it gets used for is schoolwork and reading fan fiction at school.The kid then has other devices under our management if they need to do anything else.Think of it like the work/personal split where no one sensible uses work devices for personal use any more.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRGapvw2gNZ2rtQ by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T02:49:21Z
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@thomasbeagle Thanks for the reply. The school in question is #BYOD only and I don't want to buy two devices (obviously). Current #Linux laptop is on it's last legs, so does need to be replaced. I also don't like the idea of school having management, especially if it's a device I've purchased.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRHiJlbcXr3YMC0 by lachlan@aus.social
2025-08-28T02:59:16Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle i worked in schools in Australia with byod and we would deny that laptop wireless access making it unusable at school.As a Linux user I would just say buy the Chromebook.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRIOrDReFyzSKUy by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:02:54Z
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@lachlan @thomasbeagle Seems like a pretty rude and unreasonable policy. On what basis can you even decide what OS a device is running on as a provider of a wireless network?
(DIR) Post #AxcWRJKHlvaMr6KC0m by lachlan@aus.social
2025-08-28T03:08:18Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle because that's what our job was.The idea is that with hundreds or thousands of people at a school you need to control things.Not saying that all school or your school will do that but we had set software requirements and all students should be working from the same standard hardware approved by the school
(DIR) Post #AxcWRKHqCVDxpoBkq8 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:38:16Z
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@lachlan @thomasbeagle Then in that case, the school should be buying the hardware. They have no business exercising control over a device I had to fund or restricting access to educational resources based on a user's preferred device.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRLKMKcph3uNHP6 by lachlan@aus.social
2025-08-28T03:48:18Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle i know that ideally thats true but they dont have to let you access anything if you dont buy the device
(DIR) Post #AxcWRM2JhBzjGEwNv6 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:39:00Z
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@lachlan @rob @thomasbeagle those schools really need to be raked over the coals for that sort of behaviour. Unacceptable.
(DIR) Post #AxcWRRBMYzCZDkDBDM by lachlan@aus.social
2025-08-28T03:11:24Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle for wireless access, a simple captive portal, device certificate or mac filtering will be enough to restrict access.
(DIR) Post #AxcWhbarccyG8zqh4i by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:51:27Z
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@lachlan @thomasbeagle You can't deny a child access to educational resources based on that, especially as they have a device which is technically capable of doing everything required.
(DIR) Post #AxcWhcfrbWZ3UnCCVU by thomasbeagle@mastodon.nz
2025-08-28T03:54:08Z
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@rob @lachlan I know where you're coming from, but to them a Chromebook is like buying the right textbook or having the right calculator.I just think there's better battles to fight.
(DIR) Post #AxcWhdc07N4KP6Od7o by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:59:34Z
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@thomasbeagle @lachlan So, what you're telling me is "introducing normal people to computers was a mistake" 😂
(DIR) Post #AxcWheVInlIxAcGnK4 by lachlan@aus.social
2025-08-28T04:10:36Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle It's very simple. School network, school rules. Follow the rules or don't access the network. You have probably signed an acceptable use policy or some kind of document as part of access requirements.If this is a hill you want to die on be my guest. But from my perspective from working on the school side I wouldn't allow it.You will end up buying a chromebook or use a school supplied loaner if you don't get one.
(DIR) Post #AxcWhf2cnrxYpxrPGK by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:42:03Z
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@lachlan @rob @thomasbeagle in my experience, the people setting the 'rules' don't know one end of a computer from another. They've never even heard of Linux, so they tend not to explicitly prohibit it. But, of course, pedagogically speaking, Linux is peerless for education compared to all the proprietary options. I'd love to help your child (Rob) push back against the school if they make it troublesome. Consider this: https://davelane.nz/explainer-digitech-risks-school-boards
(DIR) Post #AxcXTXlb9ZT4AvjEQK by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:50:47Z
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@lachlan @rob @thomasbeagle - Our schools and tamariki suffer due to MoE's total tech ineptitude. They have *zero* pedagogical support for the *uncontrolled national experiment* in 'edtech' they've imposed on *all* of our children for the past 20 years. They have no leg to stand on. They are simply out of their depths & no one has taken them to task. See, for example this: https://fyi.org.nz/request/23870-rationale-for-funding-google-microsoft-software-for-public-schools-in-new-zealand Note how the MoE *lost* their MS & Goog agreements. And the meet weekly, but no minutes. Dodgy as.
(DIR) Post #AxcXhmUnBjghuVemJs by arisuwashere@mastodon.social
2025-08-28T02:55:15Z
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@rob not from NZ but considering the schools choice of a chrome book I'd imagine most of the work will be done via the web. Only issue I could see is if they use a particular app for something but in my experience with US highschools we just did web stuff.
(DIR) Post #AxcXhnhahdWHeUeVuK by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:00:05Z
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@arisuwashere Thanks, that's pretty much what I'm expecting.
(DIR) Post #AxcXhokon7hAunAbZo by downbeatdan@mastodon.nz
2025-08-28T06:45:12Z
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@arisuwashere @rob possible need for something like VS code at higher level digital courses, otherwise most educational applications are web based now for as much as we can. Even in music, online recording is do-able and pretty darn capable.
(DIR) Post #AxcXhpijCNcLubCRxQ by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:53:17Z
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@downbeatdan @arisuwashere @rob ugh. VS Code is such a trojan horse (and not 'open source'). It's not a good way to teach. A straight text editor is the right way. Takes way too long to become familiar with an IDE.
(DIR) Post #AxcXqzRKQpCAf7QZhA by thomasbeagle@mastodon.nz
2025-08-28T02:54:34Z
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@rob I entirely agree about the management point. Pity they don't supply the Chromebooks, it seems like a better way to do it.As each school is a bit different, it might be a matter of asking that particular school whether it will work, etc. I may be being optimistic about whether there's anyone who will be able to answer the question. :)
(DIR) Post #AxcXr0oPKVFauzEWJ6 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T03:01:52Z
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@thomasbeagle If they don't supply the machine they have no business 'managing' it, IMHO.I'll definitely be talking to the school about it. If they don't have anyone competent to answer the question, then my bet is they won't even notice.
(DIR) Post #AxcXr1vXBUXsNNZj3Q by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:54:58Z
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@rob @thomasbeagle I think it's a great way to ask some very useful questions of the 'powers that be'. In 99% of cases (my estimate) the people setting tech policy have 0 business doing so, because they know nothing about it. Worth pushing back against that with a very good pedagogical argument. Here's one I prepared earlier: https://davelane.nz/openschools
(DIR) Post #AxcYA6ba10VAO4Kzh2 by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:58:29Z
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@rob you could also try GalliumOS which might fool some folks, although hard to say. Depends on the nasty Google rubbish the poor school admins are forced to implement.
(DIR) Post #AxcYDCyamezb12a5Dc by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:59:03Z
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@rob fwiw, that's exactly what I'd do in your situation.
(DIR) Post #AxcbQMZMjBmMOZkIEK by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T05:27:55Z
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@lachlan @thomasbeagle It just seems so unnecessary. What does control over the device choice give that just having a well secured network does not?If the concern is over devices not being able to run certain software, the choice you are making by using Chromebooks is that everything be web based. Which means every PC available today can run it. So why the need for the restriction?
(DIR) Post #AxcbQNhCXXdntAQ45A by Natanox@chaos.social
2025-08-28T07:33:11Z
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@rob @lachlan @thomasbeagle Perhaps they follow the boundaries of some aggressive contract set by Google? I know that Apple, Adobe, Google and Microsoft bought themselves into the german education system *very* aggressively, basically giving the schools cheap stuff in return for full dependency on their tech. And many politicians happily supported selling us out since it saved so much money (in the short run) for the education system.Your school's hands might even be tied.
(DIR) Post #AxcbQOuM27kxeFa5Ds by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T07:34:58Z
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@Natanox @rob @lachlan @thomasbeagle well worth making that explicit, and shining a light on it. It's very very dangerous to do business with those US corporations. They are not honourable partners.
(DIR) Post #AxcgFyhp644vG6ZLPM by downbeatdan@mastodon.nz
2025-08-28T08:29:09Z
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@lightweight @arisuwashere @rob I agree- i use thonny when starting kids in python. Way fewer distractions.
(DIR) Post #AxdlkQUJ3vb72VXq5I by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T21:05:22Z
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@lightweight Hmmm, it looks like GalliumOS hasn't been updated since 2019, unfortunately.
(DIR) Post #Axdlr8QScBhX32wdqS by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T21:06:37Z
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@rob Hmm - hadn't checked on it since my boys were in intermediate... sad to hear it. I'd love for NZ to have its own 'turn key' OS rather than outsourcing all control to the Alphabet Corporation.
(DIR) Post #AxdmQ2sdE22vz4lhC4 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T21:12:54Z
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@lightweight I'm not even sure that's necessary. Just specifying 'a Debian derivative' provides compatibility with basically everything you could need these days.It would be different of course if they were providing the machines, but they are using BYOD as a cost cutting measure, with the pretense that it allows choice.
(DIR) Post #AxdnOv48tRhNPfBB68 by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T21:23:55Z
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@lightweight @thomasbeagle Thanks for the link, I've bookmarked it to refer back to later. Your suggested approach makes me think of the old fashioned Linux installfest. Perhaps it's time for a revival.
(DIR) Post #Axdo3DjetpAwtnobcO by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T21:30:41Z
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@rob yeah, it's a scam. They want conformity, not choice. The future's already here, but schools certainly don't know about it.
(DIR) Post #Axdo4SYJIOql8u687U by bigblen@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T05:56:33Z
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@rob I sent my kid to high school with a linux laptop Initally a tiny underpowered emachines 'netbook', later a 2nd hand asus with pretty decent specs.They are now near university graduation, still running linux (on a newer 2nd hand thinkpad).My partner also is using linux after taking advice from a 3rd party to "run what your tech support person runs" :)
(DIR) Post #Axdo4abRMe6i6vck6q by bigblen@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T06:01:22Z
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@rob aforementioned kid just arrived home, and i mentioned the idea that such a laptop would be banned from the network as a matter of policy. They just shook their head and said "Ridiculous!"
(DIR) Post #AxdoAoOgzRGSdAd0pU by rob@fedi.webworxshop.com
2025-08-28T21:32:34Z
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@lightweight I agree, it's definitely a scam.
(DIR) Post #AxdoELXSEBOoHlPbOK by lightweight@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-08-28T21:33:14Z
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@rob schools and education should be about community involvement, not outsourcing to foreign corporations who mostly wouldn't even be able to find you on a map. I think you're right - we need to return to a more community-participatory educational system. @thomasbeagle