Post AsXuXM3dkrFIMDO2Ay by raphael@mastodon.communick.com
(DIR) More posts by raphael@mastodon.communick.com
(DIR) Post #AsXriPeoPcskqOM3fs by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-03-29T11:22:50.980794Z
6 likes, 8 repeats
I saw the news that ATProto relay is now very cheap to run, and went to check it. Turns out "cheap" means 10 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD, 50mbps bandwidth. This is more than minimum Ethereum node requirements, and I am not sure how it could possibly be worse than that.Needless to say, relay is only one component in their laughably inefficient system, which is still not decentralized in any meaningful way.#scam
(DIR) Post #AsXtjOaq3P1Xk35noO by lutindiscret@mastodon.libre-entreprise.com
2025-03-29T11:29:49Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill i’m really not sure that a x000 users mastodon instance would require less actually. It’s big number but still not reserved to bigtech number
(DIR) Post #AsXuXENuHchgYko6ee by raphael@mastodon.communick.com
2025-03-29T11:43:35Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill > This is more than minimum Ethereum node requirementsOh, come on. Ethereum's base layer handles less than 30 transactions per second. If this was unbounded of course it would require more hardware as well...
(DIR) Post #AsXuXM3dkrFIMDO2Ay by raphael@mastodon.communick.com
2025-03-29T11:45:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill With that said, I wonder why they can't build a relay based on gossip protocols to make it scale like a torrent swarm?
(DIR) Post #AsXyjX453XM7mqeeuG by grishka@friends.grishka.me
2025-03-29T12:27:42Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The inefficiency of their system is guided by the premise that people want to see curated out-of-network content. That's literally the only reason to have that "shared heap" — in order to recommend people content, you need as large of a pool of content as possible to choose from, and that's a way to achieve that. The fediverse elegantly avoids this by just not doing the whole algorithmic feed thing.
(DIR) Post #AsYMT0HzXrLaOxoT7w by tesaguri@fedibird.com
2025-03-29T13:13:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill My understanding is that their definition of "cheap" is intended for organizations as the entry cost of the "market" of ATProto services, which I think is consistent with their stated goal of "credible exit", that is, giving users multiple choices of whole platforms (as opposed to empowering every user to affordably self-host a whole set of social networking functionalities, oh no).Yes, that's a very different view of the world from ours, but it's at least self-consistent, maybe. Still not to my taste though
(DIR) Post #AsYMT1TN922q4Y94VM by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-03-29T17:07:29.924131Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tesaguri As long as they position themselves as decentralized social, we should compare ATP and AP apples-to-apples, and that means counting the entire stack.
(DIR) Post #AsYMT6bM4mOvykv18q by tesaguri@fedibird.com
2025-03-29T13:19:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill That said, I suppose the biggest bottleneck in operating an entire platform is the moderation. Bluesky said in January that they have ~100 moderators (<https://bsky.social/about/blog/01-17-2025-moderation-2024>), and I guess technical operation cost of the AppView won't even compare with *that*
(DIR) Post #AsYNYGiQ04E8kUFSG8 by oldmanspidey@discuss.smash.today
2025-03-29T16:18:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpillSo what does this mean exactly? What is a relay running on these specs capable of? /gen
(DIR) Post #AsYNYIASbIFhFkNMbg by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-03-29T17:16:37.231724Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@oldmanspidey It is capable of being a bottleneck and a single point of failure for the Bluesky network. I am not sure if there are other benefits.
(DIR) Post #AsYOlDnOGcN1PbJXfs by reiver@mastodon.social
2025-03-29T16:25:10Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill The CTO of Bluesky (Paul Frazee) seemed to be encouraging people to access the PDSes (personal data servers) directly, rather than getting everything through Bluesky's Firehose Relay.I did see one app that was doing that now....That makes Bluesky feel a bit more like a Fediverse architecture.
(DIR) Post #AsYOlEus6Hwst5p1yS by silverpill@mitra.social
2025-03-29T17:33:06.701138Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@reiver Yes, it can be fixed by changing a protocol so it works like ActivityPub, but that simply means they were lying all along about advantages of ATProto over it.
(DIR) Post #AsZyhlmrjiTRBUgLse by reiver@mastodon.social
2025-03-29T19:28:08Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@silverpill I suspect they are trying to be polite.I have now heard the Bluesky CTO state why they didn't go with ActivityPub (at least) 3 times. Each time, the wording was a bit different, but the message seemed to be the same.He gave one technical reason, and one social reason.Given how much time they spent developing their protocol, I suspect they could have solved the technical problem (in much less time).Which just leaves the social reason.Which I suspect is the actual reason.