Post AsJOt0MY4IRdhoxBFA by MikeFromLFE@cupoftea.social
(DIR) More posts by MikeFromLFE@cupoftea.social
(DIR) Post #AsJKG2Pu67QwxxgdKC by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-22T11:01:08Z
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It's amazing how many people out there pretend that they believe that Tesla is the only EV, or the best one, or the best value for money, or the best EV for the environment, and that boycotting Tesla would be some kind of hypocrisy if you believe in humanity's objective not to destroy our habitat.In the US market, two Tesla models are the most popular EV models and Tesla is the most popular EV brand, but that is true pretty much only in the US.The most popular EV brand in the world is BYD. Here in HK they start from 209 000 HKD, that's about 27 000 USD, but it's a middle-class executive car, it's not the cheapest or most cost-efficient EV.If you're in India, you can buy a Tata EV for 2 lakh. That's 200 000 INR ≈ 2 300 USD. Yes, two thousand. Now, I don't know what it would take to bring a Tata up to US code, but of those 40 000 USD in difference between the Tata and the starting price (before federal subsidies) for a Tesla, I doubt all of it is safety features.
(DIR) Post #AsJKdDNRVuIzcSaSUi by mpjgregoire@cosocial.ca
2025-03-22T11:06:03Z
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@clacke How are BYD EVs as cars? Are they well-made, comfortable, pleasant to drive?We don't have any around here.
(DIR) Post #AsJL8Sp48aKgV3PMyO by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-22T11:10:18Z
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The difference between the *price* of a Tesla, 42 000 USD, and the *price difference* between a Tesla and a Tata, 39 700 USD, is pretty much a rounding error.No, wait, they call them "2 lakh EVs" because they cost under 2 lakh. You can get a Tata for 1 lakh = 100 000 INR ≈ 1 100 USD.
(DIR) Post #AsJLL9AWWOWZJDUbXk by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-22T11:13:57Z
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@mpjgregoire I don't drive cars or ride cars much, but when we visited folks in Guangzhou last time, they insisted on driving us to the train station, so I've been riding a BYD once, for half an hour.It feels like riding a Volkswagen or a Saab, just a normal car, nice seats, good road comfort. Nothing to remark on.
(DIR) Post #AsJNbj8QldkFOjY0Mi by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-22T11:38:41Z
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On the US market, the Nissan Leaf starts at just below 30 kUSD before subsidies. Is that the cheapest there is?There are still diesels for 10 kUSD, right? When will EVs come down to those prices?
(DIR) Post #AsJOBXJsAryzB5yUPg by sun@shitposter.world
2025-03-22T11:46:43.337026Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@clacke you could never get a tata imported into the usa and registered for road use. a lot of places can't even register kei trucks
(DIR) Post #AsJOt0MY4IRdhoxBFA by MikeFromLFE@cupoftea.social
2025-03-22T11:52:54Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@clacke In the UK the cheapest practical electric car is the Dacia Spring at about £15000 - a cheaper BYD car is in the pipeline.There are cheaper electric cars but they tend to be speed limited, and/or two seater.The cheapest ICE car in the UK isn't much cheaper! It's the Dacia Sandrero at about £14500.
(DIR) Post #AsJQbwHUBrpE23ZkpM by mrsaturday@shitposter.world
2025-03-22T12:13:55.682751Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @clacke I doubt we'll ever see BYD either given Chevy and Ford write our domestic auto policy down to the fuel efficiency level and they're still mad about us letting in Japanese cars in the 70s. We have reached this point, though. Fun, huh?
(DIR) Post #AsJUpsVrOeqaDTCXuS by why@shitposter.world
2025-03-22T13:01:15.913331Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@MikeFromLFE @clacke DACIA SANDERO MENTIONED!!!
(DIR) Post #AsJV96FQYRy4JggFmq by firebreathingduck@social.vivaldi.net
2025-03-22T13:01:57Z
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@clacke In the US passenger diesel vehicles are rare. The cheapest new gasoline (petrol) vehicles are about 17kUSD, and those are uncommon. Most other vehicle start in the 20-25kUSD range.But there are plenty of electric options to compete with Tesla that are the same price or cheaper.
(DIR) Post #AsJag6DyA8gdZRYMyW by mansr@society.oftrolls.com
2025-03-22T14:05:44Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@gemlog @clacke How much does the Tesla spontaneous self-combustion module cost?
(DIR) Post #AsNlRh6qcP6dkhOalU by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-24T14:22:47Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@idlestate Like 15 years ago there were new Peugeots and maybe Renaults that were diesels with modern particle filters and a fuel economy that altogether made them a better environmental choice than gasoline cars, and they went for 100 kSEK ≈ 10 kUSD + 25% VAT.
(DIR) Post #AsNmfkfcHBUKnuvR44 by valhalla@social.gl-como.it
2025-03-24T14:38:27Z
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@clacke OTOH, here in Italy they sell electrical things that are legally a small motorbike but have 4 wheels (and a steering wheel) rather than a car, and they cost something like 6k - 8k EUR (compared to 2k - 4k for the petrol version): I wonder whether those are a better comparison for the Tata EV(they are still significantly more expensive, but less so than a fancy car like the Tesla used to be)
(DIR) Post #AsSBi4k7tMu97l4yzQ by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-26T17:34:23Z
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@idlestate Interesting! - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European… - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californ… - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_S…It would seem that in 2005 (I think that's around the time I'm thinking of, rather than 2010), the EU was using Euro 4 and many US states were using CARB LEV as the minimum standard.Euro 4 allows 0.30 g/km hydrocarbons + NOx, while CARB LEV allows 0.390 g/mi ≈ 0.24 g/km non-methane gases + NOx. Not apples-to-apples comparable and not vastly stricter, but you seem to be remembering correctly that it was quite a bit stricter.Dieselgate wasn't so much about US standards though. VW was breaking all the standards: "the vehicles emitted up to 40 times more NOx in real-world driving"The reason was like you said, they skimped on the catalytic reduction system and went for one that didn't work so well on a lean mix: "the system failed to combine lower fuel consumption with compliant NOx emissions, and Volkswagen chose around 2006 to program the Engine Control Unit (ECU) to switch from lower fuel consumption and high NOx emissions to low-emission compliant mode when it detected an emissions test"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswag…
(DIR) Post #AsSBiC6iVm8Nxqhcfo by clacke@libranet.de
2025-03-26T17:36:18Z
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@idlestate Only VW was caught cheating though. Other brands emitted legal particle levels on the road as in the lab.