Post Ar5fo7pyogkmvyDh0S by ramsey@phpc.social
(DIR) More posts by ramsey@phpc.social
(DIR) Post #Ar5elXmJoQiaZ7iEPA by hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange
2025-02-13T02:09:03Z
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The few properly recognized women and black scientists are quickly having their biographies wiped from US records and institutions. Please maintain a record of them. https://www.space.com/the-universe/earth/scientists-alarmed-as-rubin-observatory-changes-biography-of-astronomer-vera-rubin-amid-trumps-push-to-end-dei-efforts
(DIR) Post #Ar5eld7lw5ql96mw2S by hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange
2025-02-13T02:21:28Z
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You should see illustrated here that it was never about just hiring. Here’s a well established scientist in her own merit long before DEI initiatives being erased.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo1N2rM2ksUdV4a by kauer@aus.social
2025-02-13T02:23:54Z
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@hacks4pancakes I wish people would stop conflating anti-DEI and the erasure of e.g. women. The latter has nothing to do with DEI.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo28C23l1Eih9Yu by hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange
2025-02-13T02:25:10Z
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@kauer I’m not conflating it! Our entire government is, and it’s having that practical outcome. Even the government memorials to agents are being covered. The exact thing will happen in Australia if conservatives can get away with it.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo2nfXqvzJM6HD6 by kauer@aus.social
2025-02-13T02:26:45Z
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@hacks4pancakes sorry, didn't mean you. Look at the URL in your previous post.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo3d4Sk3Dsm9KKW by hacks4pancakes@infosec.exchange
2025-02-13T02:29:48Z
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@kauer yes, that’s exactly what happened. It’s all happening under his so called anti DEI culture war
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo4XR5B8ahaWLBY by ramsey@phpc.social
2025-02-13T02:37:25Z
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@hacks4pancakes @kauer Anti DEI *is* anti women, IMO. What am I missing?
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo5Srdf4hZhOChM by kauer@aus.social
2025-02-13T03:28:10Z
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@ramsey @hacks4pancakes DEI is something people can in good faith have differing opinions about. Changing history, pretending that facts are not facts, erasing the achievements of this group or that for ideological and repressive reasons - those are not things that have two sides.Doing the latter things, while claiming it has anything to do with DEI, is at best ignorant. At worst it is a form of complicity.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo68h88XFfQxbto by wcbdata@vis.social
2025-02-13T03:38:29Z
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@kauer @ramsey @hacks4pancakes Like all modern Republican messages, this one co-opts a perfectly good word with an established definition, often associated with progress (and therefore, sometimes erroneously, with progressives). The word is then redefined to be whatever they want to get rid of, no matter how unrelated (see also: CRT, woke, diversity, porn, etc.). This provides a convenient all-purpose target, irritates intelligent people, and throws the discipline using that word into disarray.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo733kZccUFKckq by ramsey@phpc.social
2025-02-13T03:44:04Z
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@wcbdata @kauer @hacks4pancakes I think there's some nuance in here that I'm not quite grasping. I need to learn more about it. 🙂
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo7pyogkmvyDh0S by ramsey@phpc.social
2025-02-13T04:12:55Z
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@wcbdata @kauer @hacks4pancakes Oh! I get it, now. By associating the term “DEI” with the removal of facts from bios, etc., they’re normalizing arguments for/against teaching actual history.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo8Ye8cTzAV7Mcy by kauer@aus.social
2025-02-13T05:15:10Z
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@ramsey @wcbdata @hacks4pancakes Well, no, not really. It's more a sort of chain of non-logic based on faulty axioms, starting with "women, black people etc cannot have professional merit". DEI gives jobs to women, black people etc. Therefore DEI gives jobs to people without professional merit. Therefore all women, black people etc with jobs were hired without professional merit, therefore they are DEI hires. Sacking people hired without professional merit is a no-brainer right?Kind of a syllogism ("all crows are black, this is black, therefore this is a crow").But even if you manage to believe all that, it goes nowhere near showing that the documented achievements of women, black people etc did not happen, still less that they should be erased from history. Especially (stupid to even have to say this) those achievements that happened before DEI existed.There's a second propaganda reason for attacking DEI; it is strongly associated with progressive politics, so discrediting it as a policy, making out that it's unfairly taking jobs from "us", discredits other progressive policies by association. Win!Like all cons, it relies for success on the target suckers not looking too closely at the details.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo9K9I0TpXpLIfY by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2025-02-13T08:05:55Z
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@kauer @ramsey @wcbdata @hacks4pancakes I don’t think it needs to be that chain of logic. The problem for a lot of people with backgrounds like mine is that the advantages we’ve had are invisible. No one ever told me boys can’s program. No one ever picked a set of people to go to a weekend maths or programming activities and ignored me because I was a boy. Police never harassed me for being white. If you grew up like that and are surrounded by people with similar experiences, it’s easy to think ‘I got here entirely on merit and so did all of my friends’. And, if you believe that (which is easy to do, because it reflects your experiences) then anyone who didn’t achieve the same thing must have less skill. Any programme that’s trying to get more of those people into your field is lowering the bar.It’s easy to win a race of people are tripping up your competitors and it’s easy to not notice if your vision is focused on the finish line. And a lot of DEI training is staggeringly bad at explaining this. The message needs to be simple:We want the best people.A lot of the best people are being deselected (often self-deselected) for reasons unrelated to their ability.We can’t compete if we can’t hire and retain the best people.The fact that this has societal benefits is a nice bonus, but is not why a company cares.EDIT: I wrote this in reply to the post above, not the top of the thread. Erasing people from history is indefensible. It was indefensible when it was done at the time because it didn’t fit a prevailing narrative, it’s even less defensible when you’re undoing recognition that addressed a small part of that erasure. Defending that pushes you well out of the space that can be plausibly defended as ignorance and not malice.
(DIR) Post #Ar5fo9rpGnQ1EH6CA4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-02-13T23:05:43Z
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(1/?)@david_chisnall > Any programme that’s trying to get more of those people into your field is lowering the barThis is going to shock some people, but it needs to be said. One can be in favour of the goals of DEI - equal treatment of all in hiring and promotion - *and* acknowledge the fact that DEI programs have *sometimes* resulted in people being promoted beyond what their abilities justify. To their own detriment;https://strypey.dreamwidth.org/6069.html@kauer @ramsey @wcbdata @hacks4pancakes
(DIR) Post #Ar5foDiOxmFzACij1k by wcbdata@vis.social
2025-02-13T03:52:50Z
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@kauer @ramsey @hacks4pancakes Add "doxxing" to that list:https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/12/business/media/elon-musk-doxxing-marko-elez.html
(DIR) Post #Ar5gPNJaEbOveQpRDc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-02-13T23:12:44Z
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(2/?)The stubborn refusal of a loud minority of progressives to acknowledge this nuance has played a big part in allowing the issue to become so balkanized. To the point that anti-DEI arguments can be weaponised in favour of erasing the historical facts about people's achievement.
(DIR) Post #Ar5giONaV694SGlme8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-02-13T23:16:14Z
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(3/3)Identitarian progressives have fallen into this kind of trap in a whole range of areas. All around the world, but particularly so in the US. Building systems of discursive control that seems like a great idea when you're the ones in control of them (eg at pre-Musk Titter), but not so much when you lose it (eg at Xitter).
(DIR) Post #Ar5huVrEcf834qyqIq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-02-13T23:29:35Z
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@hacks4pancakes> The few properly recognized women and black scientists are quickly having their biographies wiped from US records and institutions. Please maintain a record of themThis is where the @internetarchive and their Wayback Machine really shows its value. Presumably they've been taking snapshots of all government websites for years, so we can compare versions from BOS (Before Orange Stalin) with those from DOS (During Orange Stalin).#InternetArchive #WaybackMachine@lindawoodrow
(DIR) Post #Ar6UTv2rlNSt89MyMS by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2025-02-14T08:33:45Z
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@strypey @kauer @ramsey @wcbdata @hacks4pancakes As with anything else, these initiatives are subject to Goodhart's law and that’s why it’s important to keep the goal (find and retain the best people, don’t accidentally deselect them) in mind. I’ve written a much longer post on this subject before