Post Aq9EXsRDMbMGDdX0DI by audunmb@todon.nl
(DIR) More posts by audunmb@todon.nl
(DIR) Post #Aq6QoWCZuEJe9aVVBo by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-15T07:12:13Z
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Elon Musk 'hosts' Alice Weidel on X, she then goes on to tell an AfD party meeting that when in power AfD will oversea the 'remigration' of migrants who 'fail to assimilate' & this will see 'repatriations on a large scale'; which have led critics of the party to conclude that the AfD's policy looks like ethnic cleansing.I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions on what this might indicate about Musk's views on migrants.... how long before he uses such language himself?#migration h/t FT
(DIR) Post #Aq6QoXbmg04YW3J97I by sebastian@mastodon.cc
2025-01-15T07:17:18Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 "Remigration" is german neo-nazi-speak for mass deportation, and Weidel, shying away from the term for tactical purposes, now saw the time ripe for fully embracing it - certainly also encouraged by the Mump regime - who are already all for it.Their language on this is already very clear?
(DIR) Post #Aq6QoYjGVfePzXodPs by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-15T07:18:07Z
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@sebastian Yes, the AfD's is, but I was thinking more of Musk's own utterances whcih have been more 'masked'
(DIR) Post #Aq6QoZv05WdFgEJWLY by sebastian@mastodon.cc
2025-01-15T07:24:16Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 Maybe he is being a bit shy on that one, being an (arguably temporarily illegal) immigrant himself?There is an interesting twist in the german AfD being supported by a tri-citizenship migrant, calling for 'national identity' and 'cultural integrity' ...in context, i found this a worthwhile read:https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-11-20-how-south-african-men-are-changing-the-course-of-american-democracy/
(DIR) Post #Aq6QoayEB0o8wWpc12 by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T10:00:39Z
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@sebastian @ChrisMayLA6 It is not uncommon for immigrants to become the most fervent nationalists. The reason is that they ahve witnessed the collapse of their nation, culture and values first hand, so they know the value of a strong nation to protect them. Many have been the foreign taxi drivers I've met who are dedicated followers of the sweden democrats. They often call swedish people naive, and that sweden will become a moslem country if immigration does not stop. Fortunately, the
(DIR) Post #Aq6QqdVZiCLjORP1UG by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T10:01:08Z
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@sebastian @ChrisMayLA6 growth of the sweden democrats has forced all parties to change their immigration policy, so even though immigration has not stopped, it has been reduced.
(DIR) Post #Aq6RAgBLTrjjTeUv1k by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T10:04:44Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 Remigration is very good if it means that fundamentalist moslems are removed from society and sent back to arabia. They are a destabilizing factor in many western societies, and will lead to authoritarianism since they have much more children than native westeners. So remigration is not something dark and sinister, it is actually a necessity in order to preserve western liberal democracy.As examples of how islamification affects western societies, you need look no further than
(DIR) Post #Aq6RJDZlCuaZMYzO1g by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T10:06:17Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 sweden. Many public swimming pools stopped having one pool or one time slot for both genders, because too many moslem men could not keep their hands in control. The government is also working hard to impose restriction on freedom of speech in the form of blasphemy laws, so that religion once again should control what may be said or not. Sweden also has went through an explosion (pun intended!) of bombings, gun violence, and rape due to arabian immigrants, and as a response
(DIR) Post #Aq6RRV7VrTP45nj5MG by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T10:07:47Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 is turning itself into a surveillance society with plenty of camera surveillance, anonymous witnesses, visitation zones where the police can search you without reason, and the ability to monitor anyones phone and laptop without any suspicion or proof. This would never had happened if it were not for the arabian gangs. So getting fundamentalist moslems back to their home countries is imperative for the future safety and democracy of many european countries.
(DIR) Post #Aq6RaWFf1Z4KCwpzAO by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-15T10:09:21Z
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@h4890 @sebastian yes, we have experienced similar trends in the UK, although unevenly, it has to be said
(DIR) Post #Aq6RtogchxHKsuePEu by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-15T10:12:52Z
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@h4890 I have a problem with anyone (religious or otherwise) who tries to re-shape a permissive liberal regime (albeit often already compromised) towards intolerance; whether deportation is the best remedy I guess would be where we would differ; I'l like to see stronger championing on integration; we managed it with previous generations but now there is some strange acceptance that religious beliefs that are shifted in the political sphere have are a protected characteristic; they shouldn't be
(DIR) Post #Aq6xaBb11BsEg9i8pM by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T16:07:55Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 I think this is Poppers paradox of tolerance playing out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance To my knowledge there is no known cure, but only various attempts in various direction from integration at one end of the spectrum to deportation at the other. I think it is obvious that no matter the (current) solution, there will be unhappy people. One aspect that made this so poisonous in sweden is the total clash of values. Sweden was ethnically homogeneous and a high trust society.
(DIR) Post #Aq6xfLAqpp5DpfvlTM by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T16:08:51Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 This was ruthlessly taken advantage of by social tourists, and the results is a breaking down of trust in society, more uncertainty and the problems we see. I find this challenge very interesting from a both theoretical and practical point of view!
(DIR) Post #Aq6xgvZ11YdsyzzRk8 by purusa@social.xenofem.me
2025-01-15T10:17:31.252969Z
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@h4890 @ChrisMayLA6 [mass surveilance] would not have happened without Arabian gangsNo i'm sure they would have found some other pretext to do all that buddy
(DIR) Post #Aq6xgwbBAzy2C00gkq by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-15T16:09:07Z
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@purusa @ChrisMayLA6 Maybe, maybe not. Impossible to say.
(DIR) Post #Aq74kdAu2EHMmvQNrE by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-15T17:28:13Z
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@h4890 Yes, I'd agree, that does seem to account for quite a lot of it
(DIR) Post #Aq9EXsRDMbMGDdX0DI by audunmb@todon.nl
2025-01-15T17:41:53Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 really, you agree with this bullshit? Only a very sanitized version of Sweden's history will support this. Sweden always had a strong nationalist and racist bent to it's social democracy, including eradicating lots of its Sami culture, and unlike other European countries there never was any consequences for the Swedish Nazis after WW2, which means that Sweden has been a hotspot of Nazi activity since then. And you can't explain the rise in crime without looking at the dismantling of the welfare state in 00s and 10s. But, blame it on Arabs gangs and welfare tourism...@h4890
(DIR) Post #Aq9EXtMdv5IN5kOrj6 by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:27:21Z
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@audunmb @ChrisMayLA6 Actually the government agency tasked with tracking crime tried to hide the nr of arabians in gans. They did not succeed, and it was proven that the majority of current shootings, bombings and rape is due to arabian immigrants. The result is that all political parties, except the swedish communist party and the eco-fascists, are in favour of restricting immigration and revoking citizenships. Having lived in the country for several decades I consider myself more of an
(DIR) Post #Aq9EcabF74sgLIT8Ns by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:28:15Z
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@audunmb @ChrisMayLA6 expert than you are. I might concede a disadvantage when it comes to norway, but I think you are wrong about sweden. I also see anti-fascist mentioned in your profile which is also a code word for extreme political opinions, so I'm afraid I cannot take you seriously.
(DIR) Post #Aq9EgQDje1UbJJIimm by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:28:57Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 When it comes to poppers paradox... how would you solve it? We come from very different ideological angles, and I would be interested in hearing the solution! ;) Well, if not the solution, at least some different approaches.
(DIR) Post #Aq9Eqe315fd95fA76G by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:30:47Z
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@purusa @ChrisMayLA6 One non-arab factor I can concede is Chinas influence, through WHO during corona. Somehow it managed to scare the west into giving up democracy and freedom, and inject the idea that the planet would die unless the world choose to follow chinas authoritarian example. In swedens case, I do not see how low crime and a homogeneous and mono-ethnic society would lead to a surveillance society. But that's the problem with alternate histories, they are very difficult to prove.
(DIR) Post #Aq9F634SKxE52gBFQm by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-16T18:33:33Z
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@h4890 Its a really difficult question; in a sense one would hope to establish the limits of what is possible by consensus or through some form of democracy... the easy metaphor wold be freedom of speech does not extend to shouting fire erroneously in a crowded room & thereby causing potential harm to those who scramble to exit.... but, how that plays out in the realm of views that are expressed in difficult....
(DIR) Post #Aq9FEKV7PsMxPvbHiC by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-16T18:35:03Z
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@h4890 @purusa I broadly think we should be tolerant of most views but allow them to be argued against, thus I have not time for blasphemy laws... but, also see that its difficult to figure out where any line of tolerance is drawn, and how one even attempts to find one that doesn't also end up driving prejudicial views on the other side...once again we have hit on one of the hardest Q.s to answer in politics; what *should* we tolerate?
(DIR) Post #Aq9FeGMXQQx26xx8aG by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:39:46Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 Isn't fire in the crowded room actually easy in practice? ;) If the room is private, the owner sets the rules. If the actions of the screaming results in harm, the action is punished, but not the shouting. An easy example, people riot and the room and furniture is damaged. You're punished for causing damage and injury, not for shouting fire? But apart from that, yes, if we're talking views, connecting actions to those can be tricky. Especially propaganda... who's to say exactly
(DIR) Post #Aq9Fg6qFnISRA8jTjE by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:40:06Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 which message caused someone to become a terrorist? It is more or less impossible!
(DIR) Post #Aq9FvA542Bg1YFpyqW by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:42:49Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 @purusa This is an important problem. As you say, once a line is drawn, the ones on the wrong side are offeneded, and tend to meet in dark alleys. Therefore, their views will never be opposed. I think current mainstream media are way too sensitive about which weirdoes they allow on the air. As a result those groups and ideologies become more extreme. It would be another one of those wonderful experiments in parallell worlds... what would happen in BBC allowed nazis and
(DIR) Post #Aq9FyIsjlggLiUZOCm by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-16T18:43:23Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 @purusa communists, and libertarians and anarchists to slug it out on tv? Would they embarass themselves? Would they attract a following? Or would they be debunked?
(DIR) Post #Aq9G6ChgcezYs7AU0e by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-16T18:44:47Z
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@h4890 @purusa I think the BBC is already trying that one...
(DIR) Post #AqASGQTTff7D5L7fH6 by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-17T08:35:50Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 @purusa Really?? What's the name of the show? I'd like to watch at least one episode. In sweden I don't think there's anything like it. The culture against letting the fringes into the light is too strong.
(DIR) Post #AqAu3A0UNoYmxp1h2G by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2025-01-17T13:47:09Z
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@h4890 @purusa Ha ha, sorry I was talking figuratively.... apologies
(DIR) Post #AqAxBG0EH4kDjrSPMu by h4890@liberdon.com
2025-01-17T14:22:16Z
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@ChrisMayLA6 @purusa Oh got it! What a shame! =(