Post ApjzoUGcbwlR7pDJy4 by zeh@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by zeh@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #Apazy0dFtoUdgfhZBI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-12-31T06:03:45Z
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#TIL about #Quiet;"While apps like Slack, Discord, and Signal use central servers, Quiet syncs messages directly between a team’s devices, over Tor, with no server required."https://tryquiet.org/index.htmlApps are available for all the major platforms. Another app to test next year.#chat #groupware #P2P
(DIR) Post #Apb0UBpHocVjfhfqPQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-12-31T06:09:34Z
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The P2P chat apps I've tried so far are Jami and a couple of Tox apps. At the time I tested them (2019), they were technically clever, but not reliable enough for production use;Jami: https://write.as/c7fda5x13qzveTox: https://write.as/yt03jv11742w2It is about time I had another look through. Especially at Jami, which has shipped a few new features to improve reliability since I last tried them.
(DIR) Post #Apb0paH86qfXa2tnu4 by xuid0@hardened.computer
2024-12-31T06:13:26Z
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@strypey naturally I'm going to ask about Molly.im (that's the website URL). / simplex / Briar. I would like reviews if possible? Lol
(DIR) Post #Apb10OWu7TOCKzQrVg by xuid0@hardened.computer
2024-12-31T06:15:23Z
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@strypey interesting but as DM is currently on roadmap this is really more of a demo that an working sort of software.Thanks though.
(DIR) Post #Apb2aTVlAwhKAOfJTs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-12-31T06:33:05Z
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@xuid0 > DM is currently on roadmapAt least they didn't cheat and do a centralised DM system like BlueSky ; )> this is really more of a demo as opposed to an working sort of softwareI only just discovered it today. Sharing it with the hive mind prior to properly investigating it. As I say, a job for next year, it's (northern) new year's eve!
(DIR) Post #Apb2jvykhe5140jk1o by xuid0@hardened.computer
2024-12-31T06:34:48Z
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@strypey gotcha 😊 Have a safe new year's 🎉
(DIR) Post #Apb308oYkS51VQhIAa by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-12-31T06:37:20Z
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@xuid0 > I'm going to ask about Molly.imThis is a Signal fork. Not even decentralised, let alone P2P> simplexAFAIK this is another Signal fork, using a blockchain as its database, instead of a server. In which case, like Twister, it can't scale. Not even worth testing IMHO. > BriarStill only available for Android. Until there's at least a Mobile GNU version, I consider it a prototype, not something I'd use in the field.
(DIR) Post #Apb4adwAbzqAPWE6Oe by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-12-31T06:55:38.809222Z
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This looks very promising, thanks for the pointer!
(DIR) Post #ApbaP3sbWtZ9vb50wi by zeh@mstdn.io
2024-12-31T12:51:51Z
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@strypey No, simplex is not a signal fork and does not use blockchain for a database. Can't even imagine where you got that from. This is the site: https://simplex.chat/IMO, this is the most promising option at the moment, it's what i've been using with some people.Data stays on users' devices. Identity too - there are no global identifiers for users. Not p2p, servers are dumb relays that forward one-way encrypted connections without keeping any data. Strong metadata protection.@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApfAquNGdxz8NbsbXk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-02T06:24:35Z
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@zeh > No, simplex is not a signal fork and does not use blockchain for a database. Can't even imagine where you got that fromHmm. Perhaps I'm getting confused with something else.> Data stays on users' devicesGood for disposable messages, but useless for anything that requires auditable long term archiving (eg an elected committee's closed door discussions).> Not p2p, servers are dumb relays that forward one-way encrypted connections without keeping any dataWhy not use Nost?@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApfAv5cSmD28Pjytge by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-02T06:24:47Z
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@zeh > No, simplex is not a signal fork and does not use blockchain for a database. Can't even imagine where you got that fromHmm. Perhaps I'm getting confused with something else.> Data stays on users' devicesGood for disposable messages, but useless for anything that requires auditable long term archiving (eg an elected committee's closed door discussions).> Not p2p, servers are dumb relays that forward one-way encrypted connections without keeping any dataWhy not use Nostr?@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApfRubLZ1mKPkKQhl2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-02T09:35:35Z
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@zeh > Perhaps I'm getting confused with something elseMy apologies, it was Session I was getting confused with;https://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/session-messenger-an-open-source-signal-fork-that-doesnt-need-your-phone-number#MeaCulpa@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApfS4e4ljg4N6eMaZc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-02T09:36:02Z
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@zeh > Perhaps I'm getting confused with something elseMy apologies, I was getting Simplex confused with Session;https://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/session-messenger-an-open-source-signal-fork-that-doesnt-need-your-phone-number#MeaCulpa@xuid0
(DIR) Post #Apfg2qlB0Ly7DxEleq by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-02T12:13:57Z
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@strypey Sure, np.Data staying on users' devices, absence of centralized identifiers, and strong metadata protection are crucial for general individual and collective secure communications. If the need is official auditable discussions then that's another ball game. No need for decentralization there, and identity is even required.Nostr is a social media thing, not a secure messaging system, which is what i'm interested in and thought you were looking for w Quiet (tor, etc). @xuid0
(DIR) Post #Aph0tB5YrOsdZXxeeO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-03T03:42:10Z
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@zeh> If the need is official auditable discussions then ... No need for decentralization thereWhy do you think so?> Nostr is a social media thing, not a secure messaging systemI'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that like SSB, it can be used for both. A Nostr message can be made public by signing it with your private key and publishing it unencrypted. Or it can be made private by encrypting it with the public keys of the recipients.How does this compare to Simplex?@xuid0
(DIR) Post #Api84V6jfFWdgNogvg by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-03T16:37:25Z
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@strypey Maybe i didn't understand the use case you're referencing. I thought the need was to have group discussions and decisions that could be archived and referenced for later and by other people. Participants would need to be clearly identified, right? What is the gain of decentralized, here? It's far easier centralized and as it requires some kind of official rubberstamb, there'd be a central institution of some kind to do that. Make the discussion centralized too, then.@xuid0
(DIR) Post #Api8chnaz7TatEAr44 by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-03T16:43:39Z
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@strypeysimplex is for secure and private communications, one to one or small groups. it's not for "publishing". it's like signal but with strong metadata protection, no identifiers for users. no telephone numbers, no emails, no user names, even. on my end, i enter the name for each contact as i please, as i know them - and that stays only on my device. one can have as many "identities" as they please, ephemeral even. met person at the bar, exchanged a few messages, ahah, ok bye. @xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApiWGbAPMN06qkpt7g by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-03T21:08:40Z
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(1/?)Yes, you understand the use case.@zeh > Participants would need to be clearly identified, right?Yes.> What is the gain of decentralized, here?I can think of a few. The most obvious is the ability to use an existing, general purpose account to participate. Instead of all the group members having to agree on a single host and set up accounts there.@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApiWeNsKQfxSZoimDw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-03T21:12:57Z
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(2/2)Also, resilience of the archive. A centralised host is a SPoF. If that one service goes down, it's lost. Maybe there's a backup that can be restored on a replacement host, but that's a hassle.If it's a decentralised group with members on a number of servers, and a full copy of the history is stored on each server, the shuttering of one host is no big deal. AFAIK Matrix can be used this way, and we currently use it for group discussions for the co-up I'm part of.
(DIR) Post #ApiXBD09sWNmPP2GSO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-03T21:18:54Z
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@zeh> simplex is for secure and private communications, one to one or small groups. it's not for "publishing"That's cool. Nostr can be and is used for both.As I described, the same keypair ID can be used for publishing a social media feed, or for private chats with one person or a group. It's trivial to create new keypair IDs as needed, and there's no obligation to attach any identifying information to them.What can you tell me about how Simplex works on the protocol side?@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApjxtOVXFhFYnnOy3c by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-04T13:52:50Z
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@strypey Ok, fair enough. A federated architecture would be beneficial in some ways. This is all just an entirely different issue that what i read in your OP, since you mentioned Tor (for what i thought were identity and metadata protection requirements). Turns out that priority would be archival, auditing and stable identities, fine.
(DIR) Post #ApjzaGJzfDONos0Yls by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-04T14:11:48Z
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@strypey I dabbled a bit in SSB but only looked briefly at Nostr, was not convinced and didn't like the people and vibe. Looking again a bit, the focus seems to be on social media and preventing censorship. It still has IDs and observers can tell how is talking to whom, when, etc. Identifying people and map their relationship graph is the threat i'm concerned with and what simplex addresses. I tried to describe a bit but see here for details: https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplexmq/blob/master/protocol/overview-tjr.md@xuid0
(DIR) Post #ApjzoUGcbwlR7pDJy4 by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-04T13:56:02Z
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@strypey In my view, that organizational problem is better solved with a wiki. Write minutes for meetings and document the decisions, linking back to the minutes). In parallel, use whatever synchronous communication system you want. My preference would be one that is general - for any personal purpose - and secure, that includes identity protection in the threat model.
(DIR) Post #ApjzoVOoOyuSdW3NNA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-04T14:14:26Z
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@zeh if you know of a decentralised wiki that is E2EE, and can be used with the same ID as a decentralised discussion tool (whether chat, forum or social media style), I'd be very keen to test it.The only decentralised wiki I know of is FedWiki. I don't think it even has a private mode, let alone encryption, and I'm not aware of any integration with discussion tools.Some fediverse apps have wiki features (eg PieFed), but these aren't themselves decentralised, and also lack encryption.
(DIR) Post #Apk0CzCZFT5I18022S by zeh@mstdn.io
2025-01-04T14:18:50Z
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@strypey that's fair. i don't know about the problem you're facing and why you'd want decentralized documentation repo. i keep coming back to thinking about organizing within a group, not between groups in a decentralized way, which seems to be your concern.
(DIR) Post #Apk0LLTqIignQi48si by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-04T14:20:22Z
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@zeh> Identifying people and map their relationship graph is the threat i'm concerned with and what simplex addressesHave you talked to the @simplex dev here? I believe I had a chat with them about the design goals early in the project.Are you aware of the #redecentralise:matrix.org room? Our discussion here reminds me of many I've had there ; )@xuid0
(DIR) Post #Apk0e3hQdMoBmlLN6e by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2025-01-04T14:23:46Z
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@zeh > i don't know about the problem you're facing and why you'd want decentralized documentation repoFor the reasons laid out here;https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/113766483697409220> i keep coming back to thinking about organizing within a group, not between groups in a decentralized way, which seems to be your concernIn my experience a group distributed across a range of cities or countries has pretty much the same tool needs as group2group organising.