Post AoLImGGMLLDnDChfqy by MaierAmsden@mastodon.social
(DIR) More posts by MaierAmsden@mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AoKmDiOIZhdFmTts3M by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T12:22:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I don't like saying "the problem is capitalism" even though I think I often agree with what I assume people mean when they say this. Capitalism is this huge concept and to some people it means shopping and lemonade stands, to others it means human slavery and the indentured servitude of debt. The problem is the imbalance of power, monopolies of control and the systems that enable control. Extreme wealth and the recognition of the legitimacy of that wealth can function in this way.
(DIR) Post #AoKmsiv9VeK9IUp0BE by mcSlibinas@river.group.lt
2024-11-23T12:29:40Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird capitalism gave rights. But you need to use them. Unite, create political power, get elected and change law for any bad thing you don't like.Or find already created party with your point of view.People need mass participate in politics to get more power than any of capitalist (in that bad meaning of the word "capitalist").
(DIR) Post #AoKnnEOhfQNp8YaZ4y by MisuseCase@twit.social
2024-11-23T12:39:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Also honestly some people blame capitalism for things that don’t really have to do with capitalism/would probably exist under other systems too. And there are a few folks who will blame capitalism for things that are Very Much a Them Problem.
(DIR) Post #AoKo4VV7KWsp6apJGi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T12:43:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@MisuseCase I worry that by pinning it on "capitalism" we could miss the same kind of abuse of power and control of people in other contexts. I want an end to "Big Men" It is that simple.
(DIR) Post #AoKqeXmYWeJMVvIKy8 by mercyjohn@mstdn.social
2024-11-23T13:11:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Night Vision Pro 50% OFF - Say Goodbye to Night Driving Struggles!Get Offer - https://shorturl.at/dC4Ab
(DIR) Post #AoKqhBczLq6Wfk50pE by timo21@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-11-23T13:12:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Like others said, blame the would be aristocrats taking advantage of us, not the system of societal organization. What was known as Capitalism is dead, IMO. It's time to stop kicking the dead horse. A small percent of the world's population is hoarding most of the capital. What we have is some form of financial autocracy, some Ayn Randian thing about makers and takers. whatever fancy name there is for that, Oligarch has been the most recent word.
(DIR) Post #AoKqlABCg3drL5yoJE by ovxjbhvshh@sfba.social
2024-11-23T13:13:08Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird 🖤 BLACK FRIDAY! 🛍️ 15% OFF site-wide with code FRIDAY15 , 20% OFF orders of $250+ https://shorturl.at/8fcoi
(DIR) Post #AoKqrurW1fr7rMzVIG by quinn@social.circl.lu
2024-11-23T13:14:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird The American problem is laissez faire plantation capitalism. Other forms can be fairly effective counter balances to centralized governmental power, and restrained by regulations and culture. America, on the other has been trying to figure out how to defeat the 13th amendment since it past and balked at any democratic restraints on money.
(DIR) Post #AoKs3gvZlAtW4W4KeW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:27:42Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@jturiano "Capitalism has proven to be great at fostering innovation"I don't know if I buy into this one any more. If anything the need to make rent seems to get in the way of creativity and innovation more than anything. The people I admire most, who have done the most amazing things hardly ever do it for the cash money. What I can say it that having currency and markets aids in the distribution problem. It's a somewhat stable way to operate. But for motivation? It's broken.
(DIR) Post #AoKsKZnzUfw6uBZYgq by jwcph@helvede.net
2024-11-23T13:30:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I used to not like saying that either, but I've come to believe it was based on neglecting to take into account what capitalism means: Just like humanism means humans first, capitalism means capital first. This is bad enough if you think it means "means of production"; putting material stock before humans is, in fact, bad - but today, capital just means static wealth, which is even worse. Either way, though, system before people = bad. That's how I see it, anyway.
(DIR) Post #AoKsUyMf2QK3yCkL8i by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:32:39Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
I think it's important to push back on the idea that "Capitalism has proven to be great at fostering innovation." because it credits human creativity, scientific discovery and technological innovation to "putting up with" having inequality, suffering and concentrations of wealth so obscene they exceed the average persons ability to imagine large numbers. I don't even know if the people who stumble, and shove their way into having such wealth understand how extreme these concentrations are.
(DIR) Post #AoKsbe2R0c8QxMT25g by Paxil@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T13:33:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Grown adults who believe in ghosts that obfuscate their character is a much bigger problem than capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AoKsutButXZzSF4x04 by shlee@aus.social
2024-11-23T13:37:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird or capitalism
(DIR) Post #AoKsz3CXcTNVetM5nE by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:38:05Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
We love the idea of the hard-working plucky person making a good profit and doing what they want with it. Why not?But, that's not what we have created, it's not some system that rewards "hard work" or even meeting the needs of markets however perverse they might be. The wealth is so extreme it can overwhelm all other human systems of control and power. The courts can be bought.The universities.The churches.The sports clubs.The politicians.Everything is for sale with no upper limit.
(DIR) Post #AoKt0Jh3ms8X68EZBw by philip_cardella@historians.social
2024-11-23T13:38:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano there are things capitalism did accomplish when it moved us from feudalism (despite that it's now moving us back) but it's debatable that it alone could do even that or that it was best at doing that. But innovation? I dunno. It seems industrialization and globalization did that despite capitalism. I mean, so many of the great ideas out there are gobbled up by corporations who shelve them to avoid competition. I'd argue that's had the opposite effect of motivating.
(DIR) Post #AoKt4aVtC3ewQE2t4S by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-11-23T13:39:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano Capitalism seems to be good specifically at creating a wide variety of *consumer goods*.There's a cost associated with that, of course--lots of waste, exploitation and inequality, and all the shoddiness and danger that eventually comes from the desire to shave costs to the bone and optimize for profit margin. So even to make consumer goods without causing too much damage, it has to be heavily regulated. But I can't really argue that anything else has been better at it.There's more to life than consumer goods, though, and it seems to be taken as an article of faith in the US specifically that it ought to be best to apply the same system to services that there's little evidence capitalism is good at providing, like education and health care and various public utilities. I think there's a reason that in many countries with a basically capitalist mixed economy, these things tend to be socialized, and that they tend to be to some degree even here.
(DIR) Post #AoKt6Dva8ZDux9qKdk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:39:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@spacehobo Very valid but you are fighting a strong tide, especially given the propaganda built to conflate capitalism with all good modern things in places like the US.
(DIR) Post #AoKt8jMYEXtX1geYhE by Remittancegirl@mstdn.social
2024-11-23T13:39:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano You know, I'm genuinely torn on this. Making rent has been an issue long before the advent of European-liberal capitalism as we know it. And god knows, collectivization has caused some of the worst famines in history.I'm a socialist, and it feels like shit to admit it. But, I guess what bothers me, on both sides of the debate, is the manic embrace of absolutes.
(DIR) Post #AoKtFy9ddXLyvf45PE by peachfront@toot.community
2024-11-23T13:41:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird when we fear to state the problem plainly, we hand oligarchs an easy win as they may may now claim our problems are inescapable side effects of desirable thingsexample: when USSR broke up, violent crime rates spiked & life expectancy fell 6 yearsit was pretended the sudden rise in violent crime was caused by "freedom" rather than the oligarchs scrabbling over territory to loot their countrybut the problem was capitalism not freedom, which they've never enjoyed to this day
(DIR) Post #AoKteuy6cSKSHsZDhw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:45:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
For the record I'm in favor of lemonade stands and having a panoply of cool shops and markets. And I am against buying and selling human beings.I know this is very radical and eccentric.
(DIR) Post #AoKuDFF1keHj0aqmWW by jmax@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T13:51:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird - Capitalism has demonstrated an excellent ability to make money from human innovation.The notion that it's responsible for that innovation is much less clear.By which I mean "nah, doesn't work like that."Decent people can support innovation under capitalism, of course, and it happens, but they're going against its values when they do.
(DIR) Post #AoKuVYkpwP7ujvSiBM by Xanadu@glammr.us
2024-11-23T13:55:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird it's interesting because a lot of what you're saying in this thread are a part of Marx's critique of capitalism.Monopoly, the dissolution of social institutions into the money relation, the contradictory impact on innovation, and the totalizing of the mode of production that makes lemonade stand analogous to prison labor. "The problem is capitalism" is a shorthand, but when you go to define and describe the problems, you end up in the same place.
(DIR) Post #AoKuob7fMOWVaRDbai by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T13:58:35Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@FinalOverdrive @Remittancegirl @jturiano "The inventor or the author who refuses to share his work with the world if he cannot profit by it simply get left behind."This person is *created* by hardship: the sense that if you do not wring all of power and profit from you create you will have nothing. You will fall into a maw of poverty that will consume, you, your family, & freedom. If people do not have that fear, recognition, being admired & a little profit is often more than enough.
(DIR) Post #AoKuv3q9VBmUOF6mSu by Remittancegirl@mstdn.social
2024-11-23T13:59:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @FinalOverdrive @jturiano Actually, one model I always thought was rather interesting was this: You can either get credit for your creation or get money for it, but not both.
(DIR) Post #AoKuyNo9icaNBhl5xA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T14:00:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FinalOverdrive @Remittancegirl @jturiano Hoarding is a skill learned in famine. Hoarding ideas is learned in academic institutions where those who do not self-promote and put their name on the achievements of others will end up with no job security.
(DIR) Post #AoKv01Z7O3ACmbVWfw by dogfox@kpop.social
2024-11-23T14:00:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
It's just nonsense as well. The places we look to for big innovations are places where people are explicitly protected from capitalism: universities and government-supported enterprises. @futurebird @jturiano
(DIR) Post #AoKv9yKwFJQpfIcPjc by Remittancegirl@mstdn.social
2024-11-23T14:02:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @FinalOverdrive @jturiano I wish I thought that were true. But actually, even some animals hoard. It is pretty innate. And the only thing that stops people from hoarding is a sense of safety and plenty. So, if you can provide that first, the hoarding and selfishness will most definitely tail off.
(DIR) Post #AoKvKAFonArLWR5FUu by juandesant@astrodon.social
2024-11-23T14:04:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano capitalism needs a forcing function to make it social and innovative. There were tax incentives for companies to be innovative like Bell Labs or Xerox Palo Alto… not anymore. There were government (think DARPA) paid funding for basic science that now are no longer available, or not in the same amounts.
(DIR) Post #AoKvRRz7Gi4OXWkIDY by Beldarak@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-11-23T14:05:27Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Yup. I kinda like capitalism but you have to keep the morons in leech and set a ceiling on how much wealth one person or company can hold.Basically we need some new system based on capitalism but with humanist and ecology values as a base.
(DIR) Post #AoKvl8TRWFENosJjrk by tuban_muzuru@ohai.social
2024-11-23T14:09:09Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano The problem is not capitalism per se. Capitalism requires regulation to work effectively.As varies risk, so must vary regulation.I have noticed, with very considerable despair, that so many otherwise intelligent people still blame capitalism. They buried Karl Marx in 1883 , time to move on.
(DIR) Post #AoKwBBlLuiA5Y67LV2 by dodoandthebrawn@mastodon.world
2024-11-23T14:13:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird perpetual growth is bad.
(DIR) Post #AoKyIeu2AbHtrPrsAq by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T14:37:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@aredridel @MisuseCase If it seems effective to join some ideological banner to do that I will. But I care more about the ends than the means. The pharaohs who demanded that people join them in their graves. The kings and slavemasters. The bosses and robber barons.When a single person can disrupt the life and freedom of dozens of people or millions, when some have proportionally more say by orders of magnitude. Every single person deserves to have some influence.
(DIR) Post #AoKyblq6bVFesO8y4O by demofox@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-11-23T14:40:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird yeah, the self organizing property of capitalism is super great, and is probably the only way to deal with such large systems. But, the current scoring function doesn't have any terms for personal happiness (non monetary stuff) or protection of our environment (long term survival, not poisoning the masses etc).Regulation can help that, but yeah... it's how success is defined that is the problem :/
(DIR) Post #AoKzFAvDHXvPxgK2hk by tseitr@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-11-23T14:48:06Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I always had a lot of problems with the #capitalism as a system (because of too few of guardrails about the distribution of wealth; allowing high speed trading, low tax rates etc).Lately, I listen to science that tells us that we have roughly 100 years left as a specie. So the obvious solution seems to #degrowth and carefully choose between what is "needed" and what is "nice but not needed" but capitalism seems incompatible with that.1/2
(DIR) Post #AoKzaKuBMKfT0PvkFU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T14:52:01Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@jgordon Not having a choice about using Amazon if you are selling certain products. Needing to use one of a few credit card processing companies to buy things or sell things. Too big to "opt out."
(DIR) Post #AoKztrOqlk9zHvaK2a by AlgoCompSynth@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T14:55:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Two words: Gini coefficient
(DIR) Post #AoL0fksyI9Nkz7Vngu by F100@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T15:04:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird at this point I think “capitalism” is a vague, undefined term that is not specific enough to use in any way.
(DIR) Post #AoL0pCa6gmU1UJC0e0 by chrisnelder@mastodon.energy
2024-11-23T15:05:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Yes yes yes. I think of it as fundamentally a problem of inequitable wealth distribution. Which also has a lot to do with the rise of fascism. Properly regulated, a capitalistic system could be our best hope.
(DIR) Post #AoL36ekdPJsvgbZFdQ by jim_smoot@mastodon.world
2024-11-23T15:31:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I agree and use the term “unbridled capitalism”.
(DIR) Post #AoL3CzQLSYAXXU664W by billseitz@toolsforthought.social
2024-11-23T15:32:37Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird yeah I frame the badness as BigWorld.http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/BigWorld
(DIR) Post #AoL4d0SqJXcYFUEe5Q by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T15:48:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@gleick @FinalOverdrive @Remittancegirl @jturiano I don't think it's selfish as much as practical. It has to be done to survive.
(DIR) Post #AoL52yMojZR1H1nZDc by ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us
2024-11-23T15:53:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird yes completely agree, and likewise the notion of a neoliberalism (nowadays a term for 'economic things I don't like').There are (as you imply) varieties of capitalism and some do a much better job of spreading the systems benefits, while other versions are machines for the enrichment of a minority and the protection of that inequality.The more we realise this, the more we can see that reform has some point, rather than merely be co-option by the economic elite
(DIR) Post #AoL5qpYjksaUR69ER6 by marbletravis@mastodon.world
2024-11-23T16:02:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I like to think about it this way, shopping and lemonade stands, that's the free market. To me the free market is good, but capitalism, as in the gain of capitalism above everything else, that's where the cons start. I don't think we can have free markets without some regulations, ironic I know. But I do think people need to better isolate the parts of capitalism that are bad, when critiquing.
(DIR) Post #AoL7SsBUXkhvXHyktc by ShadSterling@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T16:20:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano what fosters innovation is having people with the resources to develop their ideas. Capitalism concentrates that freedom into a few rich people, while the rest have to spend too much of their time & attention on necessities. To optimize innovation we’d have to maximize the number of people who can spend most of their time & attention on whatever they want, and minimize the number of people who can believe their ideas do work when they don’t
(DIR) Post #AoL7Uro2v7dEwTxmZE by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-11-23T16:20:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I feel similarly.Although one additional thing I think gets confused is that people equate capitalism with all aspects of free trade and reliance on self to achieve goals.When, more specifically, capitalism has to do with the ownership of "capital" (tools and resources, including the efforts of other people, used for earning wealth) as private property.1/x
(DIR) Post #AoL7kumLdUU8nLoyYq by obtener@mastodon.world
2024-11-23T16:23:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird last night we watched:Buy Now: The Shopping Conspiracy2024 | Maturity Rating:TV-14 | 1h 24m | DocumentaryThis subversive documentary unpacks the tricks brands use to keep their customers consuming — and the real impact they have on our lives and the world." It's on Netflix and other venues https://www.netflix.com/title/81554996 The theme is our buying/selling habits are unsustainable.
(DIR) Post #AoL83AlQwSMtaK6EIS by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T16:26:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @aredridel @MisuseCase I remember opening “on the conception of liberty” and he off the bat claims the government is uniquely coercive and I was just like, what? So many people can be coercive. And I think fundamentally we should all be as free from coercion as possible.
(DIR) Post #AoL8vSyFSwdZgnyzaa by stevenroose@x0f.org
2024-11-23T16:36:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Yeah, different views on what really is capitalism is an obstacle in convincing people it is problematic. I often hear people say it means free markets. IMO though it is a market disturbance.The word capital-ism centers around capital. It is a doctrine in which the owner of the capital used is the legal right-holder to the product of labour. This is IMO the simplest description.
(DIR) Post #AoL9KdTjXEkNWCiAFM by BluesHarp@musicians.today
2024-11-23T16:41:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Capitalism is a problem when there are no guardrails. After all if you really want to reduce labor costs then slavery is the answer. But we don't accept slavery because it is terrible and indecent and against all things that we should stand for.It's the greed that ruins it all. This idea that there should be no limit to what people can acquire, even if that process harms others...
(DIR) Post #AoLCF9YfeOmr8X68mW by andyhilmer@mstdn.social
2024-11-23T17:13:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Capital describes the assets and constitution of a firm. When a firm is bigger than what any individual can handle themselves, it’s vulnerable to ratfucking by individuals or factions for the purpose of siphoning wealth out the firm. “Capitalism” is not a good word for describing this kind of grift.People could instead start with the word “grift” and go from there, rather than distracting everyone away from the problem, which is the greed of rich scumbags.@futurebird
(DIR) Post #AoLDxXWc0IMsAErdKK by michael_w_busch@mastodon.online
2024-11-23T17:33:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano When I hear lines like "Capitalism has proven to be great at fostering innovation", I think "fostering innovation at what?".Since we do not need innovation in Ponzi schemes that are powered by guessing random numbers ever more inefficiently.To take one example.
(DIR) Post #AoLE3n7sub8CHuHMeW by cshlan@dawdling.net
2024-11-23T17:34:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebirdNo economic system can guarantee there won't be concentrations of wealth and poverty because the concentration is created by the networking between all of us directed by our biases for or against each other.Like people were saying here on Mastodon a while back during one of the influxes, you can't fix social problems with technology.Poverty is created by exclusion from power and we can't fix that social problem with economic technology.Redlining was part of the New Deal.
(DIR) Post #AoLGAXo0TJGghuKShc by einalex@chaos.social
2024-11-23T17:57:48Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird the problem are the ideas and value systems people employ when they look at themselves and others and when they raise their children.What values does capitalism foster? Collaboration? Care? Sharing?Use only what you need?OrCompetition? Status by ownership? Growth?
(DIR) Post #AoLGo6qI8hcqfLGQKG by WhistlerInTheDarkAges@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T18:05:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Important to remember. The older I get, the more I think it doesn’t really matter what you call the system … it comes down to whether the people in it are acting like human beings.
(DIR) Post #AoLHUxcKJYCKVSAHwW by Visikde@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T18:12:44Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Mostly a problem of valuation Profit should be based on value added, not whatever the market will bear [WTMWB] The highest aspiration for WTMWB is passive income, money for nothing, setting yourself up as a gatekeeper, exploiting systems & workers for maximum return Founders intent was not for corporations to be people or for limited liability to be without requirements https://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-accountability-history-corporations-us/
(DIR) Post #AoLIHeL0mbBUu0Hab2 by Visikde@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T18:21:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird It's problematic to have a system [USA] based on property rights, after stealing a couple of continents [25% of the planet] using "God told me" as a justification https://theconversation.com/accept-our-king-our-god-or-else-the-senseless-requirement-spanish-colonizers-used-to-justify-their-bloodshed-in-the-americas-223527?utm_content=buffer269c3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bufferapp.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwY2xjawGu_CJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHY-0qbSI7lReokvO1pTipFZDyoUm8pE_ZI1-uFn4ISy1ZBBIituQWG4PSg_aem_Lxm7PB8G1hz3mprcxhaBLA
(DIR) Post #AoLImGGMLLDnDChfqy by MaierAmsden@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T18:27:04Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird The problem is that it's on governments to maintain balance and fairness, and they're too easily coopted by $$$.
(DIR) Post #AoLMDMVlWFssGxWX9U by ids1024@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T19:05:34Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I feel people often misdefine capitalism (unintentially, or perhaps intentionally when defending it). The problem is the means of production being owned by the "capitalists" and not the workers, who gain profits disproportionate to their contribution (if any).Technically this is different from the a free market economy being the problem. (Except to the extent that may lead to this... when unregulated anyway). Maybe blaming "rent seeking" is more descriptive and less loaded.
(DIR) Post #AoLMrZJZKuQPZ3zUky by RCSM@hometech.social
2024-11-23T19:12:52Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I think capitalism is more of a symptom, not the root problem.
(DIR) Post #AoLQDPKVRLoIpXXCF6 by GeekAndDad@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T19:50:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @steve @jturiano I wonder how much of that is an unbridled capitalism problem? Seem like the top 0.1% have taken too much of the country’s wealth out of the economy and left too little for the majority of the population; the result is, as you note, people are too busy surviving to innovate. These wealth hoarders are strangling the country by extracting too much.Not that I’m any kind of expert. Just what it seems like to me.
(DIR) Post #AoLQPCAsB3S5VLeKDQ by australopithecus@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T19:52:33Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird Partial disagree: just because "Capitalism" in common usage is vague doesn't mean Capitalism itself is a vague concept. "Capital" is right there in the name.Capitalism is properly: ownership of infrastructure ("the means of production") as a source of profit. Or, to be blunt, Capitalism == rent-seeking.We can expand this to encompass any investment-based profits (making money via capital, rather than direct labor), but to me this just sounds like rent-seeking with extra steps.
(DIR) Post #AoLQyEAckRojpYEnNQ by australopithecus@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T19:57:48Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird Of course you're right that not everything is the fault of Capitalism, even properly understood, which is why this is only a partial disagree. But even economists agree that rent-seeking is unambiguously bad. The difficulty is that people have confused "Capitalism" with "markets" and "the economy" so deeply (and probably at least somewhat by design) that is impossible to talk about this without a college-level intro course. Even detractors of Capitalism usually make this mistake.
(DIR) Post #AoLSYUE8cwO80ajcdU by thehypersphere@mastodon.social
2024-11-23T20:16:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
the solution to capitalism begins by finding a stable, objective definition: capitalism is an ideology based on the principle that the best use of capital is the generation of capital.ggeznore
(DIR) Post #AoLVlANc1t6g53u7ZQ by realn2s@infosec.exchange
2024-11-23T20:52:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird If you look at innovation, a lot of innovation is paid for by the state (directly or indirectly).Internet, or computer technology in general, medicine, pharmacy. Often the research is dubbed by the public but private companies are allowed to reap the profits. IMHO opinion capitalism is only good in fostering decentral decisions. E.g. nobody centrally decides on how many lemonade stands are necessary. This breaks for big companies (or monopolies) where decisions again are made centrally
(DIR) Post #AoLXafBtKnzeMVXcmW by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T20:47:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@remote_orb @thesquirrelfish @silvermoon82 @futurebird Yea I mean, what we have is a pretty sorry excuse for capitalism. Is there a single competitive market left out there?
(DIR) Post #AoLXaguwuld5iXd7eS by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T20:49:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@remote_orb @thesquirrelfish @silvermoon82 @futurebird Maybe we should all be saying the problem is oligarchy or something. It does seem we need a more specific name for the economic system we’re in.
(DIR) Post #AoLXai0IsLVT5R8udU by thesquirrelfish@sfba.social
2024-11-23T20:56:45Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@JackiemauroI don't think competitive markets is a definitional feature of capitalism.. maybe what we need is to actually come up with a better term for the type of economy that maximizes individual choices in both how to labor and what to buy. @remote_orb @silvermoon82 @futurebird
(DIR) Post #AoLXaiZ2nBIOpBOemm by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T21:10:15Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82 @futurebird Oh I was thinking of a better term for the system we’re in now. It is a form of capitalism but definitely a particularly corrupted and concentrated one.
(DIR) Post #AoLXaj8UfNeUb7yy2a by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T21:13:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jackiemauro @thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82 I'm not gonna call it something other than capitalism just because it isn't working out so well at the moment. That's just as bad as blaming everything that goes wrong on capitalism. It can be a very harmful system and has built in modes of exploitation. Can that be mitigated? Minimized?Show me!
(DIR) Post #AoLY1a82GPbETrZbzE by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T21:17:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82 Fair enough! And I’m not here to defend capitalism. I just also don’t love when we blame things on “capitalism” when our issues aren’t necessarily down to that broad concept.
(DIR) Post #AoLa58Z4t41g3l2s2i by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T21:40:59Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jackiemauro @thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82 I'm just sensitive to the response to criticisms of the way things work that go along the lines of "oh well that part, where the person is going into debt in prison trying to stay in contact with their child because private prison phone companies have a monopoly? Well THAT isn't 'true capitalism' because it's bad."No. That's capitalism. That's what we've made.
(DIR) Post #AoLavgrUcIbRUKia4O by Jackiemauro@fosstodon.org
2024-11-23T21:50:27Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@futurebird Oh yea. 1000%. There’s no like sweet, gentle version of capitalism that doesn’t involve exploiting or even just creating scarcity (as far as I know). I just wonder if a more precise diagnosis of the ills we’re suffering now would be more useful. But maybe it would just be more jargon. @thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82
(DIR) Post #AoLblsOeyWJWK07FOi by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-23T21:59:55Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Jackiemauro @thesquirrelfish @remote_orb @silvermoon82 No good a holy version of capitalism where, if you do it just right, perverse little (and massive) oubliettes of exploitation don't develop like tumors.
(DIR) Post #AoLfoZuIZk05f7SU7c by Susan60@aus.social
2024-11-23T22:45:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird It’s unfettered, unregulated capitalism. It’s monopolies & duopolies & huge businesses where shareholder profit is the main aim, not simply providing living wages, products & services. It’s where the customer is a passive object to be manipulated, rather than a person to be won over & retained by good products & services.
(DIR) Post #AoLh2hkEKeUJyj35jE by klausfiend@dcerberus.com
2024-11-23T22:58:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird IMO the problem is power, and in a capital economy, money is power, and the people with the most money usually win. Capitalism's fundamental flaw is that it has no solution to the problem of power; it doesn't acknowledge that the problem even exists – which is why the way central governments have abdicated their role in regulating power in the name of enabling "growth" has been so corrosive to the public _everything_. There are so many problems the market cannot fix.
(DIR) Post #AoLikB4XGj5dLHq8ie by Lapizistik@social.tchncs.de
2024-11-23T23:18:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird It's even worse. If you have the money¹ then you don't need to spend it. You don't need to really buy, just having it opens doors and grands you access to decisions.The option to really buy a decision comes on top if needed.__¹or/and a high social status
(DIR) Post #AoLnyHX0Y9MtCThbqS by Susan60@aus.social
2024-11-24T00:16:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird It’s all about the individuals, using ideas in a way that benefits everyone involved. And since some individuals simply don’t do that, regulation is needed & must be overseen.
(DIR) Post #AoLyMr0BK11HhZhh4a by andyhilmer@mstdn.social
2024-11-24T01:55:50Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
This is why I think textbooks should be put together by consortiums of universities, who pay the professors for their time and make the result available for free, or close to it, as ebook and print on demand.The state of the art for most university classes doesn’t change that much, but there should be some variety in approaches and pedagogical style.@FinalOverdrive @gleick @futurebird @jturiano
(DIR) Post #AoLyr5hvDBVPzua5QW by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-11-24T02:14:05Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @futurebird @jturiano I think the schools get some profit from the textbook racket too don't they?I think if they weren't actively participating in the con they wouldn't be doing things like actually *requiring* new editions all the time so people can't buy used books.
(DIR) Post #AoLyr6S0RqMwIq8tG4 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-24T02:18:34Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano When I taught at public college we banned textbook reps from our floor and used only older editions, or free textbooks. It was easier to do this as a math department. At my current school all our material is authored by the faculty over time. We essentially have our own custom textbooks. (Though we do supplement from time to time. )In my experience picking the book is up to the prof. though department heads can twist arms.
(DIR) Post #AoLz81Dl95Gp0QXpBo by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-24T02:21:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano We had signs. Which I thought was a little harsh, but then I ran into one who was trying to sneak in and stalk some of the newer faculty.
(DIR) Post #AoLzGnDuYccwCQncx6 by nazokiyoubinbou@mastodon.social
2024-11-24T02:23:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano If they weren't so evil I'd actually have to laugh pretty hard at the thought of them having to try to sneak in and stalk facility members."Psst. Hey buddy. Wanna try one of my books? First one's free."
(DIR) Post #AoLzP3t4U9lyCLzjBw by fullyabstract@fosstodon.org
2024-11-24T02:24:41Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano The CS theory book I wrote is open source.https://alleystoughton.us/forlan/book.pdf
(DIR) Post #AoM3GdY4vYy20iPhiq by algebraicyclist@mathstodon.xyz
2024-11-24T03:08:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano at the public R1 I’m at: we don’t have a budget for grading support, which means we can’t assign problem sets except in small classes. the textbook companies have taken advantage of this to kill the used textbook market: they bundle electronic access to the textbook itself with access to an electronic homework platform (the electronic homework is better than nothing, but they flounder when asked to actually solve problems and write up their own solutions)
(DIR) Post #AoM6AytGxwTWKHK0ZM by trachelipus@masto.ai
2024-11-24T03:40:36Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano Years ago I was at a conference with songwriter Eric Lowen when he went public about his ALS. He led a frank discussion about how he & Dan Navarro were laying down as many demo tracks as possible while he was still functional enough to do so. "This is my kids' college fund," he said bluntly. It was a sobering moment. He died at 60. Ya, Disney is evil. Ya, we should have better societal support for creatives and orphaned kids. Until we do, tho, let's not eff up copyright.
(DIR) Post #AoM8hDntFp11kmIzZY by deskJet95@ohai.social
2024-11-24T04:08:50Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano Lower stakes in the age of libgen, fortunately. Though of course some people still don't know about it!
(DIR) Post #AoMBgzbOM4oPZR2eBs by Karen5Lund@mastodon.social
2024-11-24T04:42:24Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano For a course on Non-Profits our instructor created her own "textbook" from articles and chapters, with appropriate permission from the sources, printed and simply bound by the university's print shop. It was cheap, focused and entirely up-to-date; she tweaked the content each semester she taught the course.
(DIR) Post #AoMWb4mqGPh6wzPwsy by katzenberger@mastodon.de
2024-11-24T08:36:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebirdOnce you've accepted to measure the "worth" of everything in $$, the only remaining question is whether selling it is legal or not. Lemonade is, still; enslaved aren't, at the moment, which is why they are more expensive at the moment, to account for human trafficking costs.We train kids on lemonade, to avoid them being appalled too early in their learning journey. Later, they will be taught there actually is a difference between what is right and what is the law, and that it's the law that ultimately matters. Pretending they're identical is a key part of capitalist education for kids.As is the appropriation of childhood by capitalism, so it can accuse its critics of ruining a kid's joy of selling lemonade with "politics".
(DIR) Post #AoMgqgRTXk9BccVKme by david_chisnall@infosec.exchange
2024-11-24T10:31:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I was going to write something similar, but I think you’ve captured it. I feel like blaming ‘capitalism’ is as lazy as blaming immigration. I suspect the period of greatest increase in both living standards and civil rights came in the USA and Europe after the end of the Second World War, under (heavily regulated and highly taxed) capitalism. The massive wealth inequality didn’t start until Reagan, Thatcher, and friends pursued deregulation policies that were already discredited when they started.The USSR showed that centrally managed economies collapse to oligarchy even faster than market driven ones. Mao’s Great Leap Forward was a case study in how they can accidentally kill large chunks of the population (Mao did by accident what Stalin did with malice).Capitalism displacing Feudalism drove the Industrial Revolution, but socially that just involved a little bit of churn in the ruling classes. Peasant farmers were replaced by a labouring class with little security and few rights. The Labour movement took decades to get a decent set of rights and might not have succeeded without the labour shortages caused by both world wars (women’s suffrage almost certainly would have taken far longer if women hadn’t been drafted to fill jobs left empty when men were sent to war and discovered that they were able to do them just as well), but the rate at which those rights increased slowed in the ‘70s and, in various places, went backwards.Capitalism has been the dominant economic system during some of the greatest increases of rights for normal people and some of the worst imbalances in wealth. @pluralistic argued quite convincingly that people who are able to win in a capitalist society have an incentive to rebuild feudalism to ensure that they are safe from competition.In a previous thread, someone pointed out a simple model that I found interesting. Imagine everyone starts with $1000 and plays a game where they can bet 10% of their net wealth in a game with a 50% chance of winning. After round 1, half of the people will have $1100, half will have $900. But the winners can now bet $110, whereas the losers can bet $90, so the people who won in the first round can accumulate more. Or, more interesting, if someone who won in the first round plays against someone who lost, they can bet only $90. This means that, if they lose, they have $1020 (i.e. more than they started with, in spite of one win and one loss) whereas the winner now has $990 (i.e. less than they started with, in spite of winning half of their matches). Early wins are amplified. Continue the model for more rounds and it leads to a concentration of wealth.This is an overly simplistic model of how private investment works, because the odds of winning don’t always correspond to the payout, but the real investment model has the same failure mode: if you start with a lot of money, it’s easy to make it into a lot more. Occasionally rich people will lose everything by some very stupid bets or poor people will be catapulted into the ownership class by being in the right place at the right time, and this makes it look as if wealth correlates with hard work, but the growth of inequality is inherent in the system. In the ‘50s, this was countered by very high tax rates on large incomes and, especially, on income from capital (versus income from labour). That isn’t a complete fix, but it did at least slow the failure modes of capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AoMm2ix2XWqMeKpSxU by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-11-24T11:29:43Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Jackiemauro @aredridel @MisuseCase "Every person is important and deserves to have a say in our collective projects"Is apparently radical radical stuff.
(DIR) Post #AoMw93wiOTTN2iL2K8 by stragu@mastodon.indie.host
2024-11-24T13:22:53Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano the uni I work at has 30+ open textbooks published: https://uq.pressbooks.pub/I'm not sure how common that is but I certainly hope it will become the norm.
(DIR) Post #AoN0SYIQB0l4UU2Xaq by mhoye@mastodon.social
2024-11-24T14:11:14Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @jturiano I think I still believe that but only as a mechanism of market capture. Once the market is captured and competition stomped out, the goal of capitalism is to prevent innovation that might threaten that capture.
(DIR) Post #AoNEUm3NOfFL5zxMps by claudius@darmstadt.social
2024-11-24T16:48:30Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird I hear people say "capitalism is as old as humans". They mean trade. Trade is not capitalism.
(DIR) Post #AoQWladOmEkGWsLhdg by lufthans@mastodon.social
2024-11-26T06:57:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird @nazokiyoubinbou @andyhilmer @FinalOverdrive @gleick @jturiano when I got to choose a book for one of the college classes I taught I chose a desk referenceFirst night I told the students they didn't need to buy the book, but it would be useful in their careersI covered everything in class, but had the book as extra material, mapping the chapters out of order to my syllabusI also recommended the ebook version ( available as unDRMd PDF )The bookstore was not happy with me
(DIR) Post #AoaTPmpiPUUqEssfpI by gyro@chitter.xyz
2024-12-01T02:06:55Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@futurebird@Alephwyr Capitalism is more specifically control (ownership, having the final say) of the means of production by an investment class which doesn't have to work on it but gets passive income from it. A LOT of problems are downstream of this.But yeah people sometimes mean strange things when they say "capitalism".