Post AlraTW2etRLK3Ku7oe by nicholas@aklp.club
(DIR) More posts by nicholas@aklp.club
(DIR) Post #Alq8CFwgUhPXKj8DfE by rysiek@mstdn.social
2024-09-09T18:14:54Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
I said it before and I'll say it again: "AI model learns, therefore it is intelligent" is like saying "computer programs run, therefore they have legs."Metaphors like "program runs" or "model learns" are useful, but are just that: metaphors.Drawing conclusions on their basis is folly.Keep that in mind next time AI-hypers try to draw equivalences between a child going to a museum and then making their own art, and a LLM gobbling up terabytes of text and then generating word salad.
(DIR) Post #Alq8CGljQuFBt30zEO by m0xee@social.librem.one
2024-09-09T21:48:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@rysiek > Drawing conclusionsOn a whiteboard?! 😲
(DIR) Post #Alq8FVlK90LfFzN008 by Orca@nya.one
2024-09-09T21:41:51.699Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@rysiek@mstdn.social computer programs executes, therefore they kill users ​:blobcat0_0:​
(DIR) Post #AlqAX9pYclqUMEtNqa by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:14:33.432237Z
5 likes, 4 repeats
@rysiek
(DIR) Post #AlqBBzfrI4YcjNpOG8 by mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:21:56.089902Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @rysiek Acktually your AI is proprietary :RMS:
(DIR) Post #AlqBmGF1AiP6XPZDA8 by bartholin@fops.cloud
2024-09-09T22:28:27.824991Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @rysiek
(DIR) Post #AlqBrOclQoLfz97fKC by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:29:25.180182Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@bartholin @rysiek all art is theft, friend.
(DIR) Post #AlqBtM4bt1WEeY571k by olmitch@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:29:46.437951Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
Now I'm imagining what a GNU art ai would be like, something involving an old line plotter from the 70s 🤣
(DIR) Post #AlqBzr2PfqDWQR9Y3M by olmitch@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:30:56.957494Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
Yeah it's adorable when people don't comprehend that we all stand on the shoulders of giants. Muh unique thoughts
(DIR) Post #AlqC1xQgsgsepNVlwW by ZRDR_DelRio@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:31:19.842548Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @rysiek I think it's best for shitposting and throwing ideas around.I need to find the "Jason Alexander as George costanza yelling and holding A gun" I did
(DIR) Post #AlqC7KbW96P69O8cYC by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:32:17.790016Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@olmitch @bartholin @rysiek atheists when you draw conclusions from "everything is deterministic" imagine a wojak here
(DIR) Post #AlqCD9QKcwxLDEgHjc by bartholin@fops.cloud
2024-09-09T22:33:20.308831Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @rysiek but not all theft is not art
(DIR) Post #AlqCLB7QD1jUmnfDOq by YTFoidLover1488@poa.st
2024-09-09T22:34:48.158335Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @olmitch @bartholin @rysiek youchu.be/shorts/5le3ZNnCj8Y
(DIR) Post #AlqCMaaqypyA5H6Rqy by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:35:03.436544Z
2 likes, 1 repeats
@bartholin @rysiek my position on creating images with AI is that it's just a tool at a higher level of abstraction and how you use it might be unethical. or not. this is before you get into things like, training your own model on your own art, or the public domain, which is completely ethical.
(DIR) Post #AlqCWoTgDIwW2ccfh2 by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-09T22:36:54.067Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social I think it's OK if one has their own local and personally trained (yes, I know, metaphor) program they manage to generate nice pictures with. Morally speaking, I'm not sure I like the idea of mass producing pictures, text, code or whatever and having people pay for that service rather than supporting people who can do that.
(DIR) Post #AlqCnkLUpUHw9IrxiK by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:39:57.638127Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@raccoon @rysiek Fair point but consider how many famous artists historically basically did the same stuff just not as automated as AI. If you can think of it someone probably did it in the past, were criticized for it, but still sold it and still kept their reputation as a real artist. I swear I am not trying to death by a thousand papercuts to the "AI is theft" argument but like look at Salvador Dali or Andy Warhol. My "all art is theft" statement is a quote from Picasso btw.
(DIR) Post #AlqComabyMPHOiQw9w by vhns@yuga.surf
2024-09-09T22:40:08.713417Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bartholin @rysiek @sun your opinion is retarded and wrong
(DIR) Post #AlqD3iGmJeksLMHAo4 by breadguy@kitty.social
2024-09-09T22:38:56.492Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
@sun@shitposter.world moral panic is awesome when I do it
(DIR) Post #AlqDPzPNH9CHrvv2R6 by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-09T22:46:52.505Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social I'm not arguing against the concept that all art is theft or that someone already did something before.Hell, if I can draw a trash can it's because I saw some around, right? You can train AI with photographs you take and at that point people can't even bring up the point that the AI was trained with art without consent but personally I morally disagree with that too, unless just used locally like I said before.
(DIR) Post #AlqDbWE5bE0ipz8cc4 by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-09-09T22:48:56.570407Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
(DIR) Post #AlqDciDGWDJyIrK0bQ by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:49:10.378709Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@raccoon @rysiek I think if you are using it personally rather than for profit then it's not unethical either. Similar to how you can go into a museum and redraw paintings to learn but if you sold them you need an agreement with the artist, unless the painting is out of copyright or something.
(DIR) Post #AlqDoNHs95bGsW2Of2 by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-09T22:51:16.850Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social Agree. My issue starts with services you pay for the AI to generate pictures for you.Another acceptable way to use them is generate pictures to show an artist you want to commission the type of thing you want.
(DIR) Post #AlqDx5cnBTC0hlyjEu by EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI@mastodon.bv.linksjugend-solid.de
2024-09-09T22:49:12Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @raccoon @rysiek why not call it automated plagiarism? As in it's basically what it is, as you create a thing that's directly derivative of what you feed it with the difference that it combines thousands works into one. You could state that without any ethical innuendo, it's more descriptive than words like "theft" or "art" and if all parties involved are aware of it you could still do cool and fun stuff with it
(DIR) Post #AlqDx6ahaj7Bha0ZcW by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:52:49.667604Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
@EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @raccoon @rysiek if you want to know a secret, concepts like "art" fall apart rapidly when you start interrogating them but we all pretend it doesn't because the idea makes us feel good.
(DIR) Post #AlqE3VvgISmq1bsQwC by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:54:01.164947Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@raccoon @rysiek my opinion is that things like Dall-E that were trained using a scraper are widely used for unethical purposes. But I am strongly against blanket condemnation of them.
(DIR) Post #AlqED7uuQgImRo6ETo by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T22:55:45.431327Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@raccoon @rysiek A couple of my friends have trained an AI on an artist to generate new art in his "style". The artist said they are okay with it as long as the work is not presented as _them_ having made it.
(DIR) Post #AlqEEu0195kRrVKriK by allison@hidamari.apartments
2024-09-09T22:55:58.300963Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek a related remark from one of my friends off site"my hot (?) take is that artistic output is more a product of introjection and bricolage than we'd want to admit. it's 1% inspiration filtered through a lifetime of learning "what should go where" from practice, (sometimes) professional training, and just existing in the world. and creation is a process of smearing together some original spark, what we like from other works and want to incorporate, and what we know should be present into a coherent work."
(DIR) Post #AlqEH4wTQo80NbiRQu by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-09T22:56:28.055Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social I think, like with most things, each case is different. I'm still trying to figure out a good way of describing my opinion.Anyway. Almost 1 am, this raccoon needs to sleep. Have a wonderful rest of your day moon
(DIR) Post #AlqEurr7VOh5NPBV5s by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:03:39.417512Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@allison @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek After extensively working with LLMs I have decided 1. that AI doesn't "think" or "reason" like a human does, it is a faculty less than that. But also, that the majority of the time, human behavior is not the product of "high reasoning," it's definitely using a mechanism that's very similar to AI. Rysiek probably doesn't agree, but when you sit down and you trace a painting to learn how the artist worked, that's closer (but not entirely!) to what an AI does. It just is. Humans are not actually that special.Btw I spent a couple university years majoring in art and have illustrated using pencil and ink all my life. And the process by which you absorb influences and reinterpret, synthesize and express your art is very much an unconscious product.
(DIR) Post #AlqFMPWcQp9tcQjFGi by 0@pl.absolutelyproprietary.org
2024-09-09T23:08:37.356948Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
@nicholas @bartholin @rysiek @sun Artists too stupid to market training libraries: :angrycry:
(DIR) Post #AlqFbo9b93BkLaIqTQ by allison@hidamari.apartments
2024-09-09T23:11:23.478191Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@arcana @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek @sun I would not say "like" AIs, but there's definitely some convergence going on in a lot of cases using different means to obtain the same basic kinds of end results (different neurotypes also influence this, but that's another discussion for another day)
(DIR) Post #AlqFnLY7K0dr6gH1SS by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:13:30.429396Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@allison @arcana @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek human brain and the neural nets used in an LLM are not the same but my main takeaway is that there is not a little pilot in your head that is thinking "the most logical thing to do now is to move the right leg. And now the left leg. and now the right leg" when you are walking.
(DIR) Post #AlqG0vR9ChMuAtULUe by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:15:57.805351Z
3 likes, 2 repeats
@ageha @allison @raccoon @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @rysiek This is why I don't believe we're on the cusp of "AGI". Because there is no path to AGI from what an LLM does.
(DIR) Post #AlqGrsgEBT8GyMnFIG by PostingHellbound@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:25:31.944533Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @allison @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @raccoon @rysiek permitting some exceptions (people who can think from first principles), people don't really have the requisite framing or cognitive "building blocks" to think about aithey think by analogy, stretch it too far and end up saying retarded shit. the problem with it is that they can only analogize to concepts that is maybe coherent when predicting human behavior (but even then barely has explanatory power), but there isn't really a way around knowing math to explain ai shit
(DIR) Post #AlqH1nWwBa7hteB0hE by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:27:19.520075Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@PostingHellbound @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek I sat down and taught myself step by step how you rasterize an image of a dog and feed that into a formula that turns it into something you can run linear regression tests on.
(DIR) Post #AlqHBMFOThRMAxWsBE by PostingHellbound@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:29:03.130191Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek also colloquial explanations of human cognition essentially are to actually explaining human cognition what alchemy is to chemistry
(DIR) Post #AlqHOQ57X8Vhpex6ci by PostingHellbound@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:31:24.794915Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek yeah IMO that's the kind of thing you need to get a good grasp on to be able to reason about it intuitively. you gotta be able and willing to "reduce" cognition to "equations" which probably gives people the ick
(DIR) Post #AlqHdTNTYqZ6OliRGa by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:34:08.053332Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@PostingHellbound @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek Yeah kind of like what you said. I can sit there and go over every step of how it works and it DOES IN FACT work. But I can't tell you why in this universe that you can reduce an image to bunch of points on a graph and mathematically find the line and compare it to a dog line and inside all that noise there is a "dog" quality. That is a deep mystery. But yes, I can tell you every step and replicate it.(it doesn't always work right. human cognition doesn't either.)
(DIR) Post #AlqIJzLr4bX9j5EMi0 by PostingHellbound@shitposter.world
2024-09-09T23:41:48.904728Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@sun @EmoIsDeadAndSoAmI @allison @raccoon @rysiek i think the "why" question is mysterious due to improper framing. "dog quality" is what running the dog recognition algorithm *feels like from the inside*, but it is not inevitable that an explanation needs "dogness" to explain iti got into reading the math as a hobby because it also seems to work surprisingly well for understanding the phenomenology of human sensory shitonce slapped together the most basic imaginable 4-node neural network in python to try to get a feel for it and realized i'm still too stupid for understanding anything beyond backpropagation
(DIR) Post #AlqQZDPfsFnVJYmyAa by hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info
2024-09-10T01:14:08.313202Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@sun @raccoon @rysiek AI art is inevitable but i'll let it slide as long as people don't see themselves as the one creating itthey're the patrons commissioning it from the AI, get it right
(DIR) Post #AlqduUjdxszAWVbels by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-10T03:43:42.539Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info @sun@shitposter.world @rysiek@mstdn.social "But I had to tell the AI what to do!"Yeah when you commission art from a person you have to do that too, you still didn't draw it yourself.
(DIR) Post #AlqdwNkOus6vQjrPhA by hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info
2024-09-10T03:44:01.537491Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raccoon @sun @rysiek exactly
(DIR) Post #AlqeFtcQdwh7mPR8G8 by mischievoustomato@mitra.taihou.website
2024-09-10T03:47:33.301031Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@bartholin @sun @rysiek you can brand it as "stealing", but the novelty of being able to generate art by just feeding it ideas is too crazy and cool for people to let go of (lots of people now generate their own art for whatever the fuck they want)
(DIR) Post #AlqeMcdaB6OL8kBRS4 by mischievoustomato@mitra.taihou.website
2024-09-10T03:48:47.134276Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@raccoon @sun @rysiek not all the same use cases, plus I've heard a lot that people are happy they now don't have to deal with artists if they want art
(DIR) Post #Alqiw5dEljsB16BpR2 by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-09-10T04:40:01.279103Z
3 likes, 1 repeats
Like, I didn't draw that photograph myself either, tho.
(DIR) Post #AlqjHxJyLgArc1bafQ by sun@shitposter.world
2024-09-10T04:43:59.189010Z
0 likes, 2 repeats
@nicholas @raccoon @rysiek @hakui I love this
(DIR) Post #AlqjbNH64tGnblWILI by graf@poa.st
2024-09-10T04:47:29.691283Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@olmitch @mangeurdenuage @rysiek @sun just used chatgpt hope you like it
(DIR) Post #AlqvvvsILQSo9xUKMy by raccoon@hollow.raccoon.quest
2024-09-10T07:05:39.917Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nicholas@aklp.club AI generated pictures are more art than photographs.You at least need to push SEVERAL buttons
(DIR) Post #Alqw2bf9tFwnV6WgN6 by meso@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-09-10T07:06:52.412005Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nicholas @raccoon @rysiek @sun @hakui that's not really all a photographer does, plus they capture a coherent image of an actual thing
(DIR) Post #Alqw7PMh2aF8o8B8xk by birdulon@shpposter.club
2024-09-10T07:07:41.901070Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@nicholas @raccoon @rysiek @sun @hakui Photographers worked very hard for humans to get copyright on images generated by computers based on inputs not owned by the button-presser. They also argued the artistic merit of tweaking parameters, providing general and specific direction, and picking the good one out of several bad ones generated by pressing the button.
(DIR) Post #AlrZRBPQXCMTWnsTzc by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-09-10T14:28:17.268698Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Yes, the famous coherence of "art" photography:
(DIR) Post #AlraSu465dumGnHjma by meso@netzsphaere.xyz
2024-09-10T14:39:48.174293Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@nicholas @raccoon @rysiek @sun @hakui Yes, it is a coherent image
(DIR) Post #AlraTW2etRLK3Ku7oe by nicholas@aklp.club
2024-09-10T14:39:56.214223Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Intellectual property literally doesn't exist.