Post AlKTWeZAXrZ3SoyxP6 by vetehinen@lethallava.land
(DIR) More posts by vetehinen@lethallava.land
(DIR) Post #AlKP1iuTwgow8rwmcC by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T14:25:39Z
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Sick of left online creators pointing out how *platforms* and structure/ incentives of the social media they choose to use warp discourse & create infighting ... only to shrug their shoulder & say "go outside" ?I mean they are correct. They have identified the problem. Facebook, X, Instagram, BlueSky, Threads, (if those last two remain silo's and walled gardens) can never be productive places. But "touch grass" isn't a solution. Now... if only there was something else they could mention...
(DIR) Post #AlKPM2C3xXxXjyr6JM by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T14:29:45Z
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I could do a super-cut of all the time this gripe has come up only to be met with no solution. No real actionable ideas. (and if I didn't have a full time job I would)If you don't like the systems, if you don't like who controls them and how they are controlled why not just at least mention that it's possible to have independent social media, to build our owen systems?That millions already live in these spaces, and have mostly skipped over this issue.
(DIR) Post #AlKPTjZz3BWEKIiRJw by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T14:31:08Z
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@futurebird Possibly off topic, but I don't see how Bluesky is a walled garden / silo to a greater degree than Mastodon is. They are both federated, they are both in practice controlled by a single entity, etc.
(DIR) Post #AlKPYjUinFVRVkdc9o by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T14:32:02Z
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@richpuchalsky People on mastodon can see my posts, and those from any fedi server, including Bluesky. Bluesky people can't.It's that simple.
(DIR) Post #AlKPl5Xidz31MrvpB2 by fullyabstract@fosstodon.org
2024-08-25T14:34:15Z
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@futurebird Assuming NYT's search works, the last article to mention Mastodon was in November 2022.#GiftLinkhttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/07/technology/mastodon-twitter-elon-musk.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Fk4.SRku.iFrwLhun95zm&smid=url-share
(DIR) Post #AlKPt0J9zU95Rttd9U by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T14:35:42Z
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@futurebird I don't understand this answer. Mastodon and Bluesky use different protocols, and the only thing I've heard of that connects them is something called "Bridgy Fed". If it works at all I think it is supposed to work in both directions.
(DIR) Post #AlKTWeZAXrZ3SoyxP6 by vetehinen@lethallava.land
2024-08-25T15:09:16.270Z
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@richpuchalsky@mastodon.social while it is true Bluesky allows a third-party bridge to exist Bluesky is not federated in practice at all. They do say they want to make it such but currently what they announced as "federation" is severely lacking. Mastodon is not controlled by a single entity in the same way at all.@futurebird@sauropods.win
(DIR) Post #AlKTe8ICQDgtgYbxNA by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T15:15:25Z
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@vetehinen Mastodon really is controlled by a single entity, people just don't want to admit it. If the Mastodon foundation and mastodon.social went away, Mastodon would no longer effectively exist.The difference in protocols between Mastodon and Bluesky is typically presented as "my federation protocol is great, yours locks people into a silo" but I don't see how this isn't just boosterism.@futurebird
(DIR) Post #AlKTe9B97vdwQyJq1A by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T15:17:48Z
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@richpuchalsky @vetehinen Mastodon isn't the only software that connects to mastodon and the fediverse. It's just the largest player. You don't need to use mastodon for people to be able to see your posts.
(DIR) Post #AlKTtswLGniuhgtnRg by davep@infosec.exchange
2024-08-25T15:20:40Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky @vetehinen I think the important bit is the ActivityPub protocol that bonds it all together across federated servers.https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/
(DIR) Post #AlKU7yS5Zaq5qxSydE by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T15:22:48Z
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@futurebird You previously wrote that "People on mastodon can see my posts, and those from any fedi server, including Bluesky. Bluesky people can't."This is as far as I know not true, because Bluesky is not a "fedi server". The Fediverse uses the ActivityPro protocol, and Bluesky's federation uses the AT Protocol. The situation with people on each protocol not being able to see / respond to posts on the other one is exactly symmetrical, not some kind of silo-ing decision.@vetehinen
(DIR) Post #AlKVObiHT7QmCtXFBo by sysop408@sfba.social
2024-08-25T15:36:49Z
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@richpuchalsky ummm, no. What you just said is entirely incorrect. Mastodon could vaporize this moment and there still will be a Fediverse tomorrow. There is no central authority that governs Federation of servers. I could setup a server at my house and my neighbor could set one up and the two of us could federate with each other anytime using a network link of choice. Now, the Fediverse would be severely crippled by the loss of Mastodon and you could argue that sends it into an eventual death spiral, but it would not end. It would be as if Gmail vanished without a trace. People would still be able to email, but a massive hunk of why you would use email would be zeroed out. @vetehinen @futurebird
(DIR) Post #AlKVQ469Q408WzOZtI by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T15:37:45Z
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@sysop408 @richpuchalsky @vetehinen Thank you I was too tired to explain this all.
(DIR) Post #AlKW73xpnHRIZE0a3s by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T15:45:26Z
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@enriquericos The best way to read "go outside" is that it's a call to connect with your local community offline and spend less time on the internet. Even then it's built on this false notion that the internet isn't "real" that online communities aren't real communities, and that only face to face interactions matter. Like it's not terrible advice, but it's limited. And as you say the people saying it are the LAST ones who would take it.
(DIR) Post #AlKX9HVqUX5N7XXSHA by sanae@carfree.city
2024-08-25T15:53:06Z
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@richpuchalsky @vetehinen @futurebird a lot of servers do not federate with mastodon.social due to it being seen as having poor moderation and a spam problem. I have another account on a pretty popular server that limits mastodon.social due to having had problems with its users. I'd agree that reliance on mastodon the software is kind of holding the fediverse back but there's a lot of it you can't even see from mastodon.social
(DIR) Post #AlKX9IP9AvJzt3PcTQ by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T15:57:06Z
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@sanae @richpuchalsky @vetehinen My OP isn't a pro-Mastodon post. (or anti) It's pro-fedi. That said I'm happy if people go on mastodon.social, I'm even happy if they leave X and go to blueSky although that's not as good. I just want the people making the most noise about how social media is broken to please inform their audience about possible if imperfect solutions that can only grow if we talk about them because it's not a for profit venture and I thought "the left" would get that part.
(DIR) Post #AlKXXZbasIWSBToJJw by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T16:01:28Z
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@sanae @richpuchalsky @vetehinen Maybe they don't get that this is more profound than just choosing a more ethical brand. (Well OK I think that's what going on Tumblr or Threads is)-- but learning to see social media as something created by people not by a particular company? That's a foundational shift.
(DIR) Post #AlKXgsBf9pciQ97FVg by sanae@carfree.city
2024-08-25T16:03:08Z
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@futurebird @richpuchalsky @vetehinen maybe I phrased it badly but my point is that it already is the case for a huge chunk of the fediverse that mastodon.social effectively does not exist, so the fediverse has been pretty effective at being decentralized (I was replying to a different post rather than the OP, probably should have untagged you)
(DIR) Post #AlKZVjE4Ko2jLp3TBg by Qbitzerre@unbound.social
2024-08-25T16:23:32Z
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@futurebird @sanae @richpuchalsky @vetehinen it just occurred to me that this theme, of perceiving that we don't gave choices, of abandoning our agency... is rampant and chronic in many spheres.
(DIR) Post #AlKZo2YtBQ5uX4WciW by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T16:26:53Z
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@sanae @richpuchalsky @vetehinen (in the tone of soylent green)Social Media is People!
(DIR) Post #AlKcDvop4lZt3aS4FE by richpuchalsky@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T16:53:56Z
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@futurebird Social Media Is (a critical number of) People. If you can't find your friends on a social medium, or people who talk about your interests or whatever, it dies. The people here who are saying that the Fedi is a network that won't die even if a large number of people go away don't seem to understand that. The people who think that ActivityPro is the only protocol that tries to do what it does also don't seem to understand that.
(DIR) Post #AlKdSyKW7akJ8w0oim by cshlan@dawdling.net
2024-08-25T17:07:50Z
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@futurebird @sanae @richpuchalsky @vetehinen And being able to connect with friends without navigating the company silos!
(DIR) Post #AlKoUW9svrhBqUyjy4 by floby@mastodon.social
2024-08-25T19:11:24Z
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@futurebird sometimes they also say to go to an unmasked social inside event 🤷♀️
(DIR) Post #AlKq5cftldxcizD3rs by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-08-25T19:29:10Z
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@gatesvp @roldyclark How about a rule about content algorithms having to be:1. User controlled eg you can turn it off, and select from independently developed algorithms options at will2. Opt in, not opt out.3. Transparent. Which would not work if everyone used the same one, but, given a menu of algorithms to choose from all with their rules laid bare it would be a challenge to adapt to them all.Personally "show me the stuff people I follow like too, newest stuff first" works for me.
(DIR) Post #AlKrQ7k04dU8ovT3tw by weddige@gruene.social
2024-08-25T19:42:04Z
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@richpuchalsky @vetehinen @futurebird Mastodon (the software, which is OSS) has a share of around 70% of the fediverse. That's a lot, but a significantly different situation than with bluesky, because there is already an ecosystem besides Mastodon.Mastodon.social is the biggest Mastodon instance, but it holds still less than 30% of the Mastodon user base (less than 20% of the fediverse). If the server would be shut down, you could feel that, but most of the community would be still here.
(DIR) Post #AlKrYduYLjeeuYSwee by okohll@hachyderm.io
2024-08-25T19:45:35Z
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@futurebird @gatesvp @roldyclark That would be amazing. What's available on my screen now (web interface) is still better than my previous, Twitter. It's good to have 'live feeds': 'this server' and 'other servers' as well as 'people I follow'. Bu the ability to code your own algorithm would take it to another level
(DIR) Post #AlKuwZcWFp6oPq8KcS by KayJanes@mstdn.social
2024-08-25T20:23:44Z
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@futurebird I keep wishing every state would create what Vermont has created:https://www.vtrural.org/past-initiatives/digital-economy/front-porch-forum/