Post AkTcgTpptql3Hrf8ue by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #Ak6rstStSoy2veELDM by interpeer@chaos.social
2024-07-16T15:10:55Z
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@ps @ow2 @nlnet @NGICommons @EUCommission https://interpeer.io/blog/2024/07/the-european-union-must-keep-funding-free-software/
(DIR) Post #Ak6s8QHVjf3n3DJLfc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-20T03:54:10Z
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"While the USA, China or Russia deploy huge public and private resources to develop software and infrastructure that massively capture private consumer data, the EU can’t afford this renunciation. Free and open source software, as supported by NGI since 2020, is by design the opposite of potential vectors for foreign interference. It lets us keep our data local and favors a community-wide economy and know-how, while allowing an international collaboration."@interpeerhttps://interpeer.io/blog/2024/07/the-european-union-must-keep-funding-free-software/
(DIR) Post #Ak6tFjRgyvPGT87ec4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-20T04:06:29Z
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The Next Generation Internet funding, through organisations like NlNet, has been a boon to developers working on Free Code projects for decentralised social networks. Not only for the fediverse (ActivityPub etc), but also networks running on other protocols like XMPP (eg @snikket_im). Please consider signing the petition to keep it going, or of you're a citizen of an EU country, contract your political representatives and make sure they know why it's important.@interpeer
(DIR) Post #Ak6upTb7Tth3hF8ke8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-20T04:24:15Z
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Speaking of funding, while I'm all in favour of public funding for ethical tech development - through both governments and NGO - I'm very aware of the dependency it creates. Illustrated nicely by the potential effects of losing the NGI fund. The money can easily dry up when the countries where the funding ultimately comes from face economic droughts, or the political winds change, deprioriting public tech. (1/?)
(DIR) Post #Ak6upYZB0Y6t6fGloO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-20T04:24:15Z
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I'm a big fan of creating tech businesses as social enterprises, especially as democratic cooperatives. But in my experience so far, funding to get co-ops started is a big challenge compared to standard for-profit startups. Who can attract deep-pocketed capitalists, on the promise of paying them out when the company reaches IPO or gets acquired by bigger fish.(2/?)
(DIR) Post #Ak6vavTjdds5mIJOaW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-20T04:32:55Z
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One thing I think could really help is a tech co-op incubator - a Co-Up, so to speak - that helps people wanting to start new co-ops with finding seed funding, as well as things like advice on legal structures, book-keeping and financial reporting, and so on. As well as just creating a pool of like-minded people who've already done it and made it work. Who new co-op founders can reach out to for, support and mentoring when things get tough.#TechIncubator #TechCoop
(DIR) Post #Ak7BtMoOLr971smyrw by Greenheart@fosstodon.org
2024-07-20T07:35:16Z
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@strypey There are some good examples and resources over at https://platform.coop/Another model is to set up a tech consulting co-op which then reinvest its profits back into supporting free software projects. Wither with money or by paying our employees to contribute to free software. This is how we run my organization Greenheart Co-op, and I know several other co-ops who supported us when we got started.Consulting co-ops are probably the easiest way to start mobilizing more resources.
(DIR) Post #Ak8yG3qg0o7JpnhlB2 by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-21T04:11:52Z
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@strypey It’s not only finding funding.You could have a scenario where two people want to start a lemonade stand coop together but only one is willing to risk the start up capital.How do we calculate a risk adjusted return on that money? How do you let people run something democratically while also protecting an investment?I think sometimes capitalism seems obvious because it’s simpler at the start. We need templates for coops that make it as simple.
(DIR) Post #Ak99ecoYlCmCj0d8JU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-21T06:19:48Z
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@joelleichty > You could have a scenario where two people want to start a lemonade stand coop together but only one is willing to risk the start up capital.I think the world would get much better much faster when people can start mission-driven businesses without having any money. Especially because the kind of people most likely to do so are the least likely to have any. Although we are willing to put in "sweat equity" - unpaid or underpaid work - to bootstrap them.(1/2)
(DIR) Post #Ak99zWf8pPIrj6BuYy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-21T06:23:40Z
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@joelleichty > How do you let people run something democratically while also protecting an investment?This implies that democratic governance makes investment riskier. Why do you think so? The available evidence suggests the opposite. For one thing, once established, they're more likely to survive economic downturns than autocratic capitalist businesses;https://www.ilo.org/sites/default/files/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_emp/@emp_ent/@coop/documents/publication/wcms_207768.pdf(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AkAgLoe82NBJZ1Lkrg by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T00:00:38Z
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@strypey True, but a worker coop doesn't have to be "mission driven". The mission can be to make an excellent product or service and give the surplus back to the workers. That's what ours is.But we definitely bootstrapped ours and basically issued debt (deferred salary) to be paid back over time. Almost done paying it back!
(DIR) Post #AkAgbwHLQZ8frwNgBc by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T00:03:52Z
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@strypey I may have implied this, but it's not my intent. I'm saying there's inherent risk in any business venture. And if someone risks money, we should talk about what return they should get.In capitalism, if you risk money, you generally get all the ownership and votes. In a worker cooperative, what do you get back if you risk money (either the employees themselves or an outside source)?
(DIR) Post #AkAuJhcEbXM0XQLml6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T02:37:21Z
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@joelleichty > In a worker cooperative, what do you get back if you risk moneyOk, fair question. I think I already answered that for an established co-op looking to expand. The increased revenues from the expansion allow the co-op to buy back bonds(1) at a higher price than it sold them.But what about a startup co-op? How about a desire to buy what it plans to sell from a co-op? Investment as redeemable vouchers a la crowdfunding?(1) they're more like bonds than shares.
(DIR) Post #AkAufNGkvskpo0dbsG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T02:41:21Z
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@joelleichty > a worker coop doesn't have to be "mission driven"Maybe we're understanding "mission driven" in different ways. All I mean by it is 'not profit driven'. Which I see as inherent to co-ops, especially worker-owned ones.> The mission can be to make an excellent product or service and give the surplus back to the workersExactly.
(DIR) Post #AkAxDkPRbWyxKNDh8S by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T03:09:44Z
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@strypeyI would say it as: we are not driven to keep the surplus value of other people’s labor for ourselves.But what I want to resist is the idea you cannot want your business to make loads of money. My hope is that every employee at Cooptimize makes way more money than they would make working for capitalists.
(DIR) Post #AkAxsQjrdzqQC2Ac6a by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T03:17:21Z
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@strypey I’ll have to think about bonds (and how that’s different than debt). 🤔My hope is we can come up with some more standards for start ups. It’s hard enough just starting a business without also trying to learn all this coop stuff. I think we need better coop templates for the early stages.Then once a business is sustainable, have another template for what’s next.
(DIR) Post #AkAytVPtpwiqwfuOTA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T03:28:46Z
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@joelleichty > My hope is we can come up with some more standards for start ups. It’s hard enough just starting a business without also trying to learn all this coop stuff. I think we need better coop templates for the early stages100%. Some of this can be mitigated by using something like OpenCollective to outsource legal and accounting stuff, until the business is up and running and ready to manage it themselves. But other than running crowdfunding through it, this doesn't help find money.
(DIR) Post #AkAzHRmuyotydo5jNY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T03:33:06Z
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@joelleichty > My hope is that every employee at Cooptimize makes way more money than they would make working for capitalistsSure. But you do that through wages and salaries, not profit. The crucial difference being that you're not going to sacrifice renumeration or working conditions (or probably other values) to increase on-paper revenue. As a consequence, mission-driven is to some degree baked in.
(DIR) Post #AkB2pv5IrWUND8ovGi by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T04:12:51Z
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@strypey We agree.Part of the confusion is that we use typical business terms like “Profit” and “Profit Sharing” not “Surplus” and “Patronage”. So I don’t think about them as being different. Those things make sense for some types of coops, but I think worker coops’ financials can look like any other business.
(DIR) Post #AkB8h8jfL2AefRtd6O by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T05:18:28Z
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@joelleichty > I’ll have to think about bonds (and how that’s different than debt)I think of them as an asset you buy, rather than a loan you make. But perhaps "bond" isn't the right word either. I'm casting about for a word to describe an investment whose objective is to support development and make a modest return (thus maintaining its value despite inflation), rather than to take a share of ownership and control (which "share" implies to me).
(DIR) Post #AkB8zsook0jQnvF9SS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-22T05:21:55Z
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@joelleichty > worker coops’ financials can look like any other businessIndeed. The differences we're talking about are not in how the bookkeeping looks, but in how incentives are structured.
(DIR) Post #AkBI39EB5XNe9UjlA0 by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-22T07:03:07Z
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@strypey Legally “Preferred Shares” is probably it. A form of non voting shares with a built in Dividend. And rules for how they can be repurchased.
(DIR) Post #AkJBzdqoFH8pVdQmmW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-26T02:33:13Z
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@joelleichty > Legally “Preferred Shares”This is the technical term, yes. As I learned when Loomio took on outside investment using them. But it's an awkward construction, that tacks on a word to indicate that they're not really what the firat word usually means to investors.If I'm right that a bond is an asset in the same way a share is (I think they're a form of "securities"), not a loan, it's closer to the intended meaning.
(DIR) Post #AkJC7aeS1ZBhu4RNSq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-26T02:34:40Z
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@joelleichty > Legally “Preferred Shares”This is the technical term, yes. As I learned when Loomio took on outside investment using them. But it's an awkward construction, tacking on a word to indicate that they're not really what the first word usually means to investors.If I'm right that a bond is an asset in the same way a share is (I think they're both a form of "securities"), and not a loan, then bond is closer to the intended meaning.
(DIR) Post #AkJD1bmh00NNdM0Uz2 by jlou@mastodon.social
2024-07-26T02:44:44Z
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@strypey @joelleichty Non-voting preferred shares should be the main way to invest in worker coops. For startup worker coops, we need a mechanism that reproduces worker coops. I have an idea for that. Basically, we have a democratic association of worker coops. A startup that joins this association must give non-voting preferred shares to this association's fund and give the association partial common ownership over all its assets in exchange the coop gets capitalhttps://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/
(DIR) Post #AkJJhjQ7bAYFCgv1Wa by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-26T03:59:31Z
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@strypey Preferred shares you don’t necessarily have to return the capital. And bonds have a lot more legal requirements.
(DIR) Post #AkRX8yNAxzsE47XYXI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-30T03:07:52Z
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@joelleichty > Preferred shares you don’t necessarily have to return the capitalMaking them even less like shares as they're generally understood by investors. Which is why I'm arguing a better term is needed.> And bonds have a lot more legal requirementsAlso it seems you're right that bonds are loans;https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/062813/why-companies-issue-bonds.aspSo this isn't the right word either.
(DIR) Post #AkTbaTIks3DrwNlC1Q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:07:01Z
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Intriguing @jlou, thanks for the link. Before we discuss its content, let's talk about context, starting with who RadicalXChange are;https://www.radicalxchange.org/about/Audrey Tang I have tremendous respect for, as both technologist and political actor. Aside from her, this is a rogues gallery of blockchain and AI boosters, and shills from DataFarming corporations (eg MicroSoft) and the liberal wing of the NGO-industrial complex.I take anything they publish with a grain of salt.(1/?)@joelleichty
(DIR) Post #AkTc8dm4RJ9QGdlVlg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:13:17Z
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Particularly because the introduction tells me;"We’ll conclude with a few words about how super-powerful AIs might make PCO more workable; and conversely, PCO might make a world of powerful AIs more just and livable."https://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/Any technologist following AI development knows that impressive text and image generators notwithstanding, "super-powerful AIs" remain science fiction;https://betterwithout.ai/gradient-dissentNothing in the last 10 years makes them any more likely than before.(2/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTcgTpptql3Hrf8ue by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:19:25Z
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So having passed the salt cellar around, and with an awareness the author might be misusing terminology that fits our values to sneak in assumptions that suit their agenda (eg the example above), what useful insights can we extract from this piece?(3/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTcuPNhFvcfWn8s0O by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:21:49Z
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First, I agree that 'everyone a shareholder' vs. 'state ownership' is a false dichotomy. A rhetorical frame created by neoliberals to make the first option seem like the only alternative to Soviet-style tyranny. If people believe its inevitable that everyone will be a shareholder, it's much harder to push back against policy that privileges people's rights as shareholders over our rights as citizens.(4/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTdRr7R9Gx16xUAbY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:27:53Z
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Second, I agree that it's necessary to speak..."... not only to social justice and environmental concerns, but also to the same efficiency concerns that are usually cited to support the status quo."https://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/The most obvious challenge to the dogma that centralised ownership -whether by states or capitalists - is more "efficient" is that there is simply no real world evidence for it. Only the lack of antitrust enforcement has ever made it appear to be true.(5/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTdquECj485zfb0GO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:32:20Z
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The standard rationale for the dogma that centralisation = efficiency is this; a small number of people can make quicker decisions, therefore it's more efficient for large organisations to have decisions made by an elite, who then issue orders.The best real world example of this working is the military. But it only works there because everyone involved has been intensively trained until it does. In most cases, decisions can be implemented faster when everyone is involved in making them.(6/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTg2zB4LjjujA18E4 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T03:57:00Z
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The points about subsidiarity in decision-making and the layered nature of ownership value are well taken. Although I have more faith in regulation of commerce by democratic civic processes than do the authors, I acknowledge that the highly centrally states we currently rely on for this are not fit for purpose in the 21st century. Also that finishing the democratic revolution by bringing it into workplaces would reduce the regulatory load on civic authorities.(7/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTi6TGL9ONGoNGwnA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T04:20:03Z
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The detailed description of the Partial Common Ownership model reminded me immediately of how things like commercial fishing are regulated in NZ. The "residual rights" are held by the state, and the "PCO licenses" are the fishing quotas they issue.I'm not sure if they assign quotas every year, and I'm don't think any return goes to the previous quota holder. I do like the way this would bake in an incentive to care for the resource while using it. To the degree that can be measured.(8/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTij1bvtPk6LRkwGO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T04:27:05Z
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This fishing quota system - and many others like it in NZ - came out of creative attempts to formally recognise the traditional rights of indigenous communities. Without issuing them private property titles over things that have not traditionally been regulated this way, at least not in the European legal systems the NZ state is based on.I like the way this article reveals some of the mechanisms and incentive structures of common ownership systems. Beyond the blunt tools of "property".(9/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTiwhaV8QSqIZbllQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T04:29:35Z
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"This incentive alignment unlocks the potential for more efficient markets; even as the PCO residual unlocks the possibility for both returning the value of assets to their local community, and creating community rights to what would otherwise be strictly private assets. This turnover rate is thus a valuable tool for balancing the distinct political and economic imperatives inherent in every asset."#MattPrewitt, #JackHenderson, 2024https://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/Well put.(10/?)#commons #PCO
(DIR) Post #AkTjW6Rsh6ndXTSNZQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T04:35:57Z
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"PCO licenses are cheaper to acquire than conventional ownership. Because PCO licenses are temporary and require a fee, their purchase prices will be only a fraction of conventional ownership interests. This makes PCO assets more accessible to people with little wealth or capacity to borrow, which could significantly lessen the predominant role of debt and insecurity in the economy."https://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/If this theory pans out in practice, I can see the benefits, for sure.(11/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTpdgHeSU6kQnfVxo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T05:44:32Z
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"Corporate shares could be split into two assets: PCO licenses (entitling their holders, much like ordinary shareholders, to influence more fine-grained management decisions, such as by hiring and firing leaders) and PCO residuals (governing the more coarse-grained, constitutional/political aspects of the firm, such as changing its bylaws or its charter)."https://www.radicalxchange.org/media/blog/pco-a-new-model-of-ownership/This seems to be where the text starts to connect to our discussion about co-ops. Again, intriguing.(12/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTqxtBAK6T4Agpnzk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T05:59:15Z
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The final section of the essay heads back into sci-fi territory, making completely unwarranted assumptions about a future inevitably filled with mind-like AI. But even with all that stripped out, there are still some good insights. I agree that something like PCOs could be used to balance the benefits and overheads for stakeholders, when they're invited to be more involved in decision-making. Particularly by separating governance from management, right down in the ownership structure.(13/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTr4TssldrbkQQTmS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T06:00:35Z
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Coming back to your proposal;> Basically, we have a democratic association of worker coops. A startup that joins this association must give non-voting preferred shares to this association's fund and give the association partial common ownership over all its assets in exchange the coop gets capital
(DIR) Post #AkTszMrJexKWQ5NoBs by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-07-31T06:22:05Z
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Coming back to your proposal;@jlou> Basically, we have a democratic association of worker coops. A startup that joins this association must give non-voting preferred shares to this association's fund and give the association partial common ownership over all its assets in exchange the coop gets capitalCan you explain how the mechanism of the PCO described in this article would work here? Who is auctioning a PCO to whom each year? On what basis?(14/?)
(DIR) Post #AkTuCAGpsFy361zAFE by jlou@mastodon.social
2024-07-31T06:35:33Z
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@strypey Each asset of member worker coops of the larger association, would be PCO licenses with the larger association holding the PCO residual. The association holds the auctions, and at a bare minimum, the bidders would include the member worker coops. It could also allow outside worker coops/associations to put in bids for buying the asset completely from the association. The residual rights together with the non-voting preferred stock give the association an economic return
(DIR) Post #AkV9U69zaW7A1zkoOe by joelleichty@social.coop
2024-07-31T21:01:32Z
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@strypey @jlou Our worker cooperative makes money consulting on Microsoft business products for large enterprise clients.Life is complicated.
(DIR) Post #AkZhlDxm0JwkEDDSpE by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2024-08-03T01:44:34Z
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@joelleichty> Life is complicated100%. Thus the grain of salt, rather than a pre-emptive dismissal ; )@jlou