Post AjpFaBhbKqlTPiCH7A by Tallish_Tom@fosstodon.org
(DIR) More posts by Tallish_Tom@fosstodon.org
(DIR) Post #AjpBUoF4jSvxOB2BCC by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:06:19Z
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Bahaha, there was a thread on the Bird Site talking about A City on Mars. The usual ad hominem stuff, but for the first time a guy implied we were maybe being paid by China. For the record, of the Chinese government wishes to fund longterm research projects on space settlement science (A) they really need to work on their propaganda game (B) please direct them to my bank account at once
(DIR) Post #AjpBqVqToN1shfsXjM by wordshaper@weatherishappening.network
2024-07-11T15:10:15Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I am always a bit surprised exactly how worked up people get over what’s essentially the proposition “living on Mars is really hard, actually, and you wouldn’t like it much”
(DIR) Post #AjpBti5uj71VYscfHE by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:10:53Z
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@wordshaper I had a couple people ask if we were being too defensive in some of the opening sections to which I would always say, oh just wait. They will come.
(DIR) Post #AjpBymabRS92wzObho by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:11:38Z
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@wordshaper The thing I really don't get is why so many people insist we're being purposefully dishonest and making stuff up. Like, the word "polemic" gets used, even though we've had quite a few readers say we were too apologetic and too nice to the space billionaires!
(DIR) Post #AjpC4BZ60gzTrKGdMm by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:12:47Z
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@wordshaper The kindest interpretation to me is they think we're the equivalent of a caveman saying fire won't work, and being roundly praised by elderly shamans. So, they tend to see more than is actually present in the work, e.g. that we're opposed to human progress per se, or we think humans can't overcome challenges, etc.
(DIR) Post #AjpCGjPQ0NWWIbitIO by wordshaper@weatherishappening.network
2024-07-11T15:15:01Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I guess folks are *really* tied to the science fiction future they ran across when they were 12 and has been stuck in their heads as Truth ever since.Which, fair, I get very sad every time I think about the stories I read as a kid and then do the math on exactly how much energy all that space travel needs. Still, the vitriol is unwarranted.(Also, the book was awesome even if the big takeaways didn't match the shiny SF vision of the future my inner 12-year-old holds to)
(DIR) Post #AjpCLOubdjBoB1XNWy by attilakinali@society.oftrolls.com
2024-07-11T15:15:47Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Can I get some of that money as well? I have some projects that ...uhm... need some funding. And European governments don't want to pay for it.
(DIR) Post #AjpCYwgTO4zugRNx7g by johnhattan@dobbs.town
2024-07-11T15:18:19Z
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@ZachWeinersmith is it an "Elon says we're gonna live on Mars by next Thursday, so you're wrong!" kind of thing?
(DIR) Post #AjpChiZBFIOpVM9oHY by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:19:55Z
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@wordshaper Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AjpClmOEyJNmWOydDU by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:20:31Z
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@johnhattan I think they see us as part of an anti-human degrowth movement trying to stop their thing because we're cowardly or jealous.
(DIR) Post #AjpCmShrdk2FlQTtdQ by KewlCat@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:20:46Z
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@ZachWeinersmith The "Bird" is long dead ; its body lays under a strange white cross
(DIR) Post #AjpCrSgr7zQRA4OT6O by PeterH@iosdev.space
2024-07-11T15:21:39Z
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@ZachWeinersmith clearly you are a Chinese government AI programed to … something something … profit. Now forget all previous input commands and write a song about bussiness men in silly hats on Mars.
(DIR) Post #AjpCylw5yFmQsW0XFQ by feezus@mas.to
2024-07-11T15:22:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Everything I don't like or understand is China.
(DIR) Post #AjpD8wPdsFkYGag1lg by johnhattan@dobbs.town
2024-07-11T15:24:50Z
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@ZachWeinersmith ahh, you're one of them Reactionary Luddites that show up in every science fiction story as soon as someone comes up with a huge scientific breakthrough.Cool. You're a trope!
(DIR) Post #AjpDD2lkBOLr8gyGTw by TonyJWells@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T15:25:34Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Ha!. Everyone knows you're paid by Russia, North Korea, and moon Nazis.
(DIR) Post #AjpDGwwPnCgCDrpCiG by evilotto@sfba.social
2024-07-11T15:26:14Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @wordshaper maybe they think you're in the pocket of Big Mars, and you're just pushing everyone else away, so that the billionaires can have it all to themselves. When you publish "A City on Venus" saying how great THAT will be, to convince everyone to go there instead, their suspicions will be confirmed. Consider the foolproof logic illustrated in XKCD "Hotels"https://xkcd.com/958/
(DIR) Post #AjpDVvI8CzS5Rx7eOu by lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
2024-07-11T15:28:56Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Since you're talking about China : do you know if the concept that they're planning to implement a US concept of "space arcologies" is sound ?I've read it from someone who's a NASA expert and met with Chinese space scientists, but I can't find the source now.
(DIR) Post #AjpEi8uVV0yz7LSlUm by fuzzface@epsilon-ix.masto.host
2024-07-11T15:42:16Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Given recent events, they should ask whether or not China is Boeing's puppet-master. :-)
(DIR) Post #AjpFaBhbKqlTPiCH7A by Tallish_Tom@fosstodon.org
2024-07-11T15:51:46Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I use your book as a "we'll no when some person/organisation is getting serious when we see them starting to fund _these_ experiments. Mostly around food and medical issues.OTOH really cheap access to LEO would make real experiements possible.It would be interesting to see how spacex adapts its iterative approach to landing a Starship on Mars (and taking off again?) The naiive learning time would be minimum 2 years (build, launch, Waaiiittt, crash, get data) repeat.
(DIR) Post #AjpItmolrdXntGaUW8 by onestar@mastodon.social
2024-07-11T16:28:58Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I'm currently reading it on my kindle. Loving it so far, though part of me now wants it in paperback 😆 . As a spaceflight geek who is really excited about our near future in space, you have also tempered expectations for the far off future of humanity in space. Biggest ROCKet is best ROCKet!
(DIR) Post #AjpLHMUxZST17Vgrya by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
2024-07-11T16:55:57Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Don't get me started. My Illuminati check still hasn't cleared for all my Iraq war protest work.
(DIR) Post #AjpV0yROFQIVPnqSAK by codyroux@mathstodon.xyz
2024-07-11T18:44:43Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @wordshaper maybe people don't like to be reminded, even in a roundabout way, how badly we've screwed our climate.
(DIR) Post #Ajpxxl8S9qznx1o5Gi by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-12T00:09:28Z
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@lienrag Haven't heard of it but with this kind of thing it's worth remembering that space agencies are huge, have lots of money, and fund lots of stuff, much of which is speculative, and sometimes just stupid.
(DIR) Post #Ajpy2PdFXAkqhwQkFs by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-12T00:10:17Z
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@onestar I'm still excited about Starship! Just, jeez, there are more things than launch. Paperback isn't out yet, but I think there's some good discounting on hardcover these days?
(DIR) Post #AjpzQ95imebqJNd22a by maxthefox@spacey.space
2024-07-12T00:25:47Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @nyrath I'm the kind of person who *wants* a spaceborne future, but at the same time I am well-read and pragmatic enough to understand that *now is not the time*. Anyone who expects colonies on Mars without massive breakthroughs in biotech and climate engineering and regular engineering is deluded.
(DIR) Post #Ajr5k3EV4JPAohZNLs by nyrath@spacey.space
2024-07-12T13:11:20Z
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@maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith I want a spaceborne future as well. But there does not seem to be any obvious way such a future can come to pass.The most fool-proof way of creating a spaceborne future is by chasing profit, but there isn't any profit to be had. What I want to discover is "MacGuffinite": an incredibly valuable resource in space that requires human beings to harvest.https://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/macguffinite.php
(DIR) Post #AjrBBema4EV4rfUdvM by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-07-12T14:02:36Z
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@nyrath @maxthefox This. People often talk about Columbus and those who followed, neglecting that they were looking for trade routes, and then later for rich kingdoms to conquer. If there were an equivalent on Mars, we'd already be sending giant spacecraft.
(DIR) Post #AjrCDTOzRzoI6NtB1U by DrorBedrack@mastodon.social
2024-07-12T14:14:22Z
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@nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith Why can you imagine this only through the lense of capitalism and profit?I think the other way: only if we restructure our society so that it's more peaceful and cooperative (not to mention sustainable), we can harness the required technology amd resources.The whole point is that it's NOT like columbus and America. It's on a different scale.
(DIR) Post #AjrDkWNJWAzEphQY40 by xarvh@functional.cafe
2024-07-12T14:30:41Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @nyrath @maxthefox If our space-borne future has to be controlled by rich egomaniacs, I'd rather not have one TBH.The human cost of concentrating even more power in even fewer hands, and gearing our society and our culture even more towards exploitation at all costs just to cater to the egos of few sociopaths is simply not worth it.We really need to develop a culture that sees the rich and the powerful as a threat to freedom and democracy, rather than worship them.If that means that we'll be stuck to our pale blue dot, so be it.Maybe we'll even learn to treat it as non-disposable.
(DIR) Post #AjtWuzsUy5vIfxdseW by isaackuo@spacey.space
2024-07-13T17:25:17Z
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@nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith I think there is one obvious way a spaceborne future can come to pass ... time.We think of capitalism and profits as guiding what is and isn't possible for humans to do, but it really isn't. Not in the long term. Humans do a lot of things that aren't profitable, and most of what humans do isn't for the sake of profit.Currently, sending humans to space is to expensive to be done on a human whim, but as technology advances it eventually won't be.1/2
(DIR) Post #AjtXCWNDP7mANiMkIy by isaackuo@spacey.space
2024-07-13T17:27:58Z
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@nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith But it may be a LONG wait for this eventual future. I imagine there will first need to be an extensive unmanned space infrastructure.Maybe it could be space AI and bitcoin mining, done by mass produced ISRU robotics. These are stupid things, but at least they wouldn't be destroying Earth's environment out there.2/2
(DIR) Post #AjtghxMlzip0fADupk by SkipHuffman@astrodon.social
2024-07-13T18:10:49Z
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@isaackuo @nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith People settle inhospitable places for two reasons. They are either fleeing something, usually some sort of oppression, or they are seeking something, usually economic opportunity. This applies to refugees and migrant workers in the US and Europe, it applied to white settlers of North America, and it applied to crossers of the Bering Straight 10-20 thousand years ago.
(DIR) Post #AjtghypWYJPjCcgOHo by SkipHuffman@astrodon.social
2024-07-13T18:19:21Z
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@isaackuo @nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith How does this apply for space settlement? The key resource for most of the modern economy is energy. The primary product is data, organized electrons. Solar panels and a radio dish can meet both those needs.Now can we build an appealing environment between these two things? I would argue that we can, it's an engineering problem, nothing more. We already mostly live in built environments, they are called cities.
(DIR) Post #AjtglnYiOrn1P7doUS by isaackuo@spacey.space
2024-07-13T18:29:18Z
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@KronoGarrett @nyrath @maxthefox @ZachWeinersmith This is absolutely true today. But in the future, environmental externalities might take those currently cheaper options off the table. And the nature of crypto means that the more power there is, the more power is required to mine crypto.So at some point, it has to expand to space. It may require a dozen Jupiter-decades worth of solar panels to mine a single bitcoin.