Post AjE0O2PEe0OwTvS5Ds by Laplantgenetics@spore.social
(DIR) More posts by Laplantgenetics@spore.social
(DIR) Post #AjCliurYBz26hIEYZk by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T02:18:30Z
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I understand the alternate reality about the last election. But I don't understand the alternate reality about COVID. That's the most wild thing about it. Is it that COVID isn't really a deadly infectious disease?Or was it made in a lab?Or is it deadly, but the vaccine isn't real?Or did the vaccine cause the disease?Or is the vaccine ... mind control? IDK?There isn't really a cohesive story so it ought to be very awkward for any politician to claim to be a champion of this theory.
(DIR) Post #AjClwwktx4eYcboWzw by drakenblackknight@mastodon.online
2024-06-23T02:21:01Z
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@futurebird The government released it knto the public to thwart the raid on Area 51. ;)
(DIR) Post #AjClyzELil4ksQYpOK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T02:21:26Z
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I mean what I really think it is... is this:The things we had to do to stay safe before there was a vaccine sucked and it was scary and people resent being told what to do and feeling scared. And resent that to survive they are reminded that we need to help each other, listen to nerds some of the time. Sit with uncertainty. I guess there are a lot of people who wish we could have just ignored it and let far far far more people die. We are ignoring it now ... but post vaccine.
(DIR) Post #AjCm99P6kc15KERJcu by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T02:23:14Z
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That someone who was the got damn president during COVID could attract people who are mad at the government for doing things during COVID I don't know what to do with that one at all.
(DIR) Post #AjCmSyrzcsN8RiPEmG by Woodswalked@mstdn.party
2024-06-23T02:26:48Z
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@futurebird This can be oversimplified as all things can, but my view is that the vast majority of the anti-vaccine and anti-masking is from the belief that poor people, especially minorities, have less access to health care, and especially early on those exposed tended to live in cities, and black people were statistically more likely to die. This is all about racism.
(DIR) Post #AjCmX155LZOGSiSDtQ by indigoparadox@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T02:27:30Z
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@futurebird My mom fully blames Trump for COVID. Never mind the persistent reservoirs in other countries and the northern European countries that tried ”herd immunity” with a disease that doesn't give durable immunity for those who've had it.It has a long, asymptomatic incubation period. People love social norms and if someone says ”I'm not sick” *even if they have no way of knowing that*, well, not believing them is just rude!COVID was inevitable. So's the next, worse, thing.
(DIR) Post #AjCoDmSNhAExVoJ2R6 by eljorgeabides@mastodon.world
2024-06-23T02:46:28Z
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@futurebird What bothers me the most is these same people who will listen to tech bros about anything
(DIR) Post #AjCoWyFQ54wvaDOURk by sabik@rants.au
2024-06-23T02:49:53Z
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@futurebird The weirdest one is "made in a lab"... like, would that make covid more or less dangerous?If our enemies made covid in a lab, and I can frustrate those enemies by wearing a $2 gadget on my face
(DIR) Post #AjCqWroQCvrbX3qOtU by DecaturNature@theatl.social
2024-06-23T03:12:20Z
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@futurebird Republicans voters could have voted for Johnson/Weld if they wanted libertarian policies (former Republican governors running as Libertarian in 2016). Instead, they voted for Trump - the guy who was irrationally afraid of Ebola and wanted to shut out doctors who got sick while treating people during the west Africa outbreak.
(DIR) Post #AjCt1vHtXIJdCEZAx6 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T03:40:23Z
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I was really scared during those early days. Being in NYC. All the schools closed. Horrible zoom classes with my linear algebra class. I tried to make things feel normal for my students but I didn't feel normal at all. I'd go for walks at 1am when the Bronx streets were empty and the ambulances kept passing with their lights on but sirens off since there were so many sirens from ambulances it was freaking everyone out. I HATED it.
(DIR) Post #AjCtAofhVHkjHcwT3Y by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T03:41:59Z
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And if I didn't see all those ambulances, and people getting taken to the hospital it might have seen fake and that would have made me pretty angry, so I kinda get that part.
(DIR) Post #AjCtmgMOqxSEVhyCxM by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-06-23T03:48:47Z
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@futurebird In my experience, the grand type of conspiracy theorists rarely have a really consistent story. They have a lot of "gotchas" that they claim invalidate the conventional narrative. But it doesn't have to fit together, for them. They just have to mistrust what they're being told. They can believe a bunch of inconsistent counter-narratives at the same time if they prefer to.
(DIR) Post #AjCtpwGMBUe4hShEa8 by floatybirb@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T03:49:24Z
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@futurebird The COVID denialism gets more self-contradictory the deeper you go.A relative of mine has variously claimed that covid is only as bad as the flu, that it was made in a lab as a deep state plot, that you can avoid getting sick from it if you eat veggies and think positive thoughts, that the vaccine was unnecessary and was made to control people somehow, but that some of the vaccines are fine because good aliens undid the mine control juice in it somehow.
(DIR) Post #AjCuJc8rYdwkz3LEMC by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-06-23T03:54:45Z
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@futurebird ...I remember one of the early claims was that the fatality rate of COVID was being vastly exaggerated, and it was really much lower, comparable to a typical flu variant. There were a couple of doctors who did some kind of extrapolation from people in their clinic, that they claimed showed this.I quickly figured out they were wrong and the reason was grim: it was that too many people had died in New York City. There weren't enough people in the whole city for that many to have died if the fatality rate was as low as they claimed, even if 100% of the population of NYC had COVID.It must have been utterly terrifying to be *in* NYC. It was bad enough in Massachusetts.
(DIR) Post #AjCucuVDWATDQizyFM by thedansimonson@lingo.lol
2024-06-23T03:58:15Z
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@futurebird I’ve found the political playbook for inconvenient truths is:- It didn’t happen- it doesn’t matter- it’s the other side’s faultThese have contradictory presuppositions, but that’s because it’s not supposed to be cohesive or a sound argument. It’s meant to catch different people wherever they are.
(DIR) Post #AjCuinSgbmK3KZcbTc by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T03:59:20Z
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@mattmcirvin Nobody in NYC thought it was "fake" We have rather large buildings in the Bronx. A lot of people saw people being taken from the building they lived in. People you know. Maybe not by name, but still. A lot of bus drivers died and it's taken years to get the numbers back up with the MTA. Bus drivers got hit really hard. Also cops.
(DIR) Post #AjCv7vQQ8aFLGiXnFY by OrionKidder@mas.to
2024-06-23T04:03:51Z
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@futurebird We are all of us traumatized, to one degree or another. It's a huge part of the pandemic. All our children and grandchildren will wonder why we stare at paper masks with such melancholy or "just don't like" closed environments with lots of people in them. It took me decades to figure out that my grandmother panics when she hears whistling bc she was a kid in London during the blitz. It'll be like that.
(DIR) Post #AjCvGPeRdo0LKX9Q8W by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-06-23T04:05:24Z
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@futurebird And there was all of this, "Oh, they didn't die OF COVID, they died WITH COVID". Claims that deaths were being misattributed to pump the numbers up.But in the Northeast US in spring 2020 (and in other places later on), there were so many excess deaths overall that a reasonable response to that would be, "Well, if it's not COVID, there's clearly a plague of *something* going on, why aren't you concerned about that?"
(DIR) Post #AjCvnkKNmt8F0sf5Ky by Brett_E_Carlock@mastodon.online
2024-06-23T04:11:26Z
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@futurebird @mattmcirvin My father's side of the family lived in the Bronx and we lost an entire family unit across three generations when one of them fell ill and brought it home to everyone else. Six people.
(DIR) Post #AjCvtHWdmpk3QE2DZ2 by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T04:12:26Z
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@Brett_E_Carlock @mattmcirvin That must have been awful.
(DIR) Post #AjCw4UMOPLV8PhaLa4 by Brett_E_Carlock@mastodon.online
2024-06-23T04:14:26Z
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@futurebird @mattmcirvin Yeah, it was not great, but it did help to thin the mist of Fox News bullshit that was clouding my family a bit.
(DIR) Post #AjCwLCpGqwAqxH42QS by Elucidating@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T04:04:45Z
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@ireneista @futurebird This character was readily apparent with 911 trutherism too. There is no single coherent counternarrative there and many popular theories are mutually incompatible.I've always thought this is a worrisome detail about the moon landing hoaxers. They all have basically one narrative.
(DIR) Post #AjCwLE2mKCZajSOL7Q by mattmcirvin@mathstodon.xyz
2024-06-23T04:14:14Z
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@Elucidating @ireneista @futurebird Actually no, I've spent more time than I should listening to the moon landing hoaxers and there's a lot of variation there. Evolution over time, too.The 1970s Bill Kaysing version seems almost quaint and benign now: he actually thought a lot of the space program was real, astronauts actually went into earth orbit and they just faked the actual moon landing.These days, a lot of them disbelieve in SPACE and think the earth is flat and the sky is a dome. They think satellites are really balloons and amateur astronomers' backyard photos of the planets are digital fakes! And their flat earth counter-theory is really incoherent, lots of these bits and bobs that don't fit together.But then there others who don't believe the earth is flat and get mad if you lump them in with the flat-earthers.
(DIR) Post #AjCwehmZytO6T26Sa8 by justafrog@mstdn.social
2024-06-23T04:20:58Z
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@futurebird Remember there are people who are still upset over how Obama handled 9/11.Don't expect cohesive narratives or logic.
(DIR) Post #AjCxCeR4vlwXvvEVoe by fuchsi@chaos.social
2024-06-23T04:27:07Z
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@futurebird Perhaps also add disinformation campaigns with the aim to sow distrust and doubt.Loke this one here: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/I know that our russian funded parties in Germany did exactly that.
(DIR) Post #AjCxJRqq7NhUvjWWv2 by dibi58@this.mouse.rocks
2024-06-23T04:28:21Z
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@futurebird (1) is real ...(2) the vaccine does something, makes it less deadly ...(3) masks are the most effective defense ...(4) gov does not care because wasp kkristians are a greed cult of death ...^^^ that explais you us #1 for covid deaths on the planet ...like #1 for prison slavery on the planet ...cults of death aim at collective suicide ... is a mental pathology ...
(DIR) Post #AjCxUo51oPM33bZnm4 by dibi58@this.mouse.rocks
2024-06-23T04:30:21Z
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@futurebird (1) is real ...(2) the vaccine does something, makes it less deadly ...(3) masks are the most effective defense ...(4) gov does not care because wasp kkristians are a greed cult of death ...^^^ that explains you us #1 for covid deaths on the planet ...like #1 for prison slavery on the planet ...cults of death aim at collective suicide ... is a mental pathology ...
(DIR) Post #AjCxj8H7WYf3kG3zuK by _L1vY_@mstdn.social
2024-06-23T04:32:59Z
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@futurebird I had too many clients in health care telling me the nightmares they were going through, the refrigerated trucks, and so forth, for me to ever doubt.
(DIR) Post #AjCy6Lm3V9R2GubWPQ by ReallyBlue2@flipboard.social
2024-06-23T04:37:11Z
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@futurebird science denial equals climate change denial. Fossil fuel funded propaganda works!
(DIR) Post #AjCy80fuuyj3PhWZdo by inquiline@union.place
2024-06-23T04:37:29Z
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@futurebird Ooof. Very insightful (but ooof)
(DIR) Post #AjCyPDJpA82vYAOUqG by dave@social.lightbeamapps.com
2024-06-23T04:40:33Z
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@futurebird I was in NZ, and we locked down early and hard, and we kept it out of the country pretty successfully for 18 months.I knew it wasn’t fake, because I followed people in NY on Twitter, and saw the posts about the non-stop sirens. I saw Sky News in the UK reporting from an Italian hospital that was overloaded.I paid attention.This far in to the pandemic, that is still ongoing, I have to assume most people don’t want to. The idea it’s fake is a comforting lie
(DIR) Post #AjCz6lH0nO5bJJqNJQ by dibi58@this.mouse.rocks
2024-06-23T04:48:28Z
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@futurebird is not only real, is evolving and growing non linearlyus did not feel 2002+ sars, hit hard china but low deaths in the us, nor felt the 2011+ wave, killed about 12k people in the us but bau and hot hardly nobody heard about itnow the 2020+ wave, 1.2m plus excess deaths (university of wa sais 300k about before biden)a rough correlation shows that has been growing about hundred times in ten yearsin the mean time we have chicken flu, covid 5% deaths, cf 50% deaths so far🤷♀️
(DIR) Post #AjCzdbbzjod4tzJsga by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:54:24Z
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@futurebird It seems to me a lot of the U.S. zeitgeist around Covid-19 relates back to narratives around Trump support in general, which in turn relate to people feeling lack of control (especially from rapid change), and lashing out at anything they feel might be a threat, or anything they don’t understand which is trying to control them or tell them they are either wrong or have a responsibility.1/x#uspolitics #COVID19 #conspiracy #QAnon
(DIR) Post #AjCziB7JfkpyB59OIS by Legit_Spaghetti@mastodo.neoliber.al
2024-06-23T04:55:12Z
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@futurebird I have a simpler explanation, if you want to hear it.Some people LIKE being told what to do and feeling scared. That's why they turn to Fox News and consume other fear-based media.So when COVID hit, Trump figured that shutdowns and mask wearing would tank the economy, and in his (stupid, weak) mind, he thought a bad economy would threaten his reelection. Thus he downplayed the danger, undermined his own staff, peddled nonsense like horse paste, and his followers ate that shit up.
(DIR) Post #AjCzqd3terSBADa3iS by cykonot@mas.to
2024-06-23T04:56:45Z
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@futurebird they take as-given that capitalism is good and "their team" is honest/on their side.Trump pulled the CDC out of Wuhan in the lead-up to covid. He refused to follow Obamas plan, & actively undermined the response with lies etc while thinking it would hurt his enemies (but also just go away?)Capitalism is eating society, but reps can't blame it. so they see conspiracy.Fauci lied to make sure there were enough masks for health professionals. Understandable but undermined trust
(DIR) Post #AjD08328LjlCdV3tuS by noondlyt@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T04:59:54Z
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@futurebird The man who should be looked upon with respect for his contributions to handling COVID, now receives death threats. Death threats. Brains have been thoroughly washed at this point by the likes of Greene.
(DIR) Post #AjD1XQLEvYjK7Qf9G4 by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:55:06Z
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@futurebird These folks often don’t have a single narrative or coherent set of theories which explains things. They instead start with general objectives or outlooks, like:- I am not the cause of / responsible for bad things.- People spreading alarm probably have some selfish or controlling objective.- The government is an instrument of control, so anything coming from it is suspect.- Trump is a fellow persecuted outsider, only he can be trusted to help us.2/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XRZSMBhDvoK13Y by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:56:27Z
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@futurebird Any speculation which supports these outlooks can be given some serious consideration, even if it conflicts with other held ideas. Anything is possible if you don’t understand what is being discussed. And maybe there’s some way contradictory information could all be true in a way no one has guessed yet.3/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XSXik7tywiW8zQ by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:56:58Z
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@futurebirdIf a supposed scientific expert is telling you something you don’t fully understand, you’re more likely to feel confused and helpless, especially if it relates to personal responsibilities you never considered. But a simpler, non-mainstream speculation which absolves you of responsibility is more reassuring and makes you feel empowered, like you have insider knowledge others lack.4/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XTTrFyPFr1iZbk by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:57:29Z
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@futurebird For people consulting actual scientific experts and trying to proactively get a handle on what is happening in the world and make meaningful changes based on this understanding, the specious speculation all seems like muddled nonsense and a nightmare to navigate. They keep gathering information and finding experts or studies which can poke holes through any one of the bogus claims.5/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XUfappO5XiDSXQ by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T04:58:46Z
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@futurebird But for people who fear change, and who have already made up their mind that government/libs/experts, etc. are all wrong…for these people, having someone poke holes in any given piece of speculation doesn’t matter, and indicating different speculations don’t fit together doesn’t matter. They already feel like things don’t make sense.6/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XVhkzGiEkiEhY8 by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T05:00:42Z
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@futurebird For these folks worldview, the lack of coherence is actually a benefit: No single disproof can topple their whole worldview, cause the bits of their worldview aren’t strongly causally linked. And if one detail is disproven, there are plenty more unfounded speculations they can turn to, or allies who will come up with new arguments against expert opinions. As long as any new speculation fits their initial outlooks, it can still hover in that potentially-plausible headspace.7/x
(DIR) Post #AjD1XWQQJCRQzF8NAe by PTR_K@dice.camp
2024-06-23T05:04:26Z
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@futurebird I might have pointed out before, but Dan Olson has this (somewhat long) documentary which starts out as a well-planned, personal-observation-based debunk of Flat Earth theory, but ends up becoming an in-depth exploration of the mindset of individuals and groups involved in things like QAnon and fringe speculations in general. I found it a fairly enlightening dive into outlooks similar to those involved in speculation surrounding Covid:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT448/8
(DIR) Post #AjD1h69cq1wuP9qLSK by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T05:17:27Z
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@noondlyt There's a lot of toxic anti Semitism behind that too. Some of the worst I've ever seen so openly.
(DIR) Post #AjD3p4qllq3saKxKeO by noondlyt@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T05:41:18Z
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@futurebird The republicans wake up everyday and blindly pull something out of a hat, throw it at the outrage wall to see what sticks. It doesn't matter if it contradicts what stuck to the walk yesterday. Words have no meaning to them.
(DIR) Post #AjDLq4yQaxhcQtAKS8 by llewelly@sauropods.win
2024-06-23T09:03:08Z
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@futurebird 1/3Long before covid19, there was an active, well-financed pro-disease antivaccine movement. And there was centuries of anti-Asian racism in USA society at large. People thought of these as fringe movements, but they were not.
(DIR) Post #AjDU4ExL4op951v56G by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2024-06-23T10:35:21Z
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@futurebird ...but vaccines don't help much, and us ignoring it helped it to evolve to evade vaccines (because we failed to vaccinate everybody), and also we keep ignoring everything that we know about long COVID and disabilities that come with it...Back then, Trump had this fringe "let it rip" approach, and the main thing that's different now is that "let it rip" became a mainstream approach (and not only in US).
(DIR) Post #AjDbh5BU2dBzkK0KEC by scrottie@anarchism.space
2024-06-23T12:00:46Z
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@futurebird Someone wrote about how the point of FUD is not to persuade but to leave people feeling hopeless in being confident of anything. It's poisoning the information well. The short, weird "drink piss to prevent covid" chapter drove that home for me. Making people feel like they don't know what's going on is the point.
(DIR) Post #AjDfGeachEaRYIPs5Q by WearsHats@realsocial.life
2024-06-23T12:40:29Z
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@futurebird The source of the issue is the same in both cases. Donald Trump. He refused to accept the election loss, so he told his supporters (who live in a media bubble) that it was stolen.He didn't want COVID to make him look bad (or, worse, tank the stock market) so he told everyone it wasn't a problem and taking precautions against it was an affront against him. Fill in your own reasons. That got picked up by Bolsonaro and others.
(DIR) Post #AjDmyHJVITQ3md9qDY by MishaVanMollusq@sfba.social
2024-06-23T14:07:10Z
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@futurebird Covid is a insidious intelligent extra terrestrial life form that uses mammals as a substrate to run its cognition on.It is the dominant life form in Mars where it exists as self guiding whirlwinds of virus particles
(DIR) Post #AjDzNVfUGMkuzcEonA by mloxton@med-mastodon.com
2024-06-23T16:26:05Z
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@futurebird I understand it, but resent it.When the first cases started showing up in my state, I knew we had just a few short weeks to fire up a robust trace & track system. Once masking was politicized and TFG was talking shit nonstop, I knew this was going to be a long fight.When armed crowds and death threats made the NIH switch to self-preservation mode, I knew this was going to be for the rest of my life.For me, no more indoor bars, very limited travel, yearly vax, and masking
(DIR) Post #AjE0O2PEe0OwTvS5Ds by Laplantgenetics@spore.social
2024-06-23T16:37:27Z
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@futurebird People do what they want and then make excuses to justify their behavior.So many parties & traveling here after the shutdowns (because if your kids go to school online & you work remotely, why not travel overseas?). Some people have a powerful need to socialize that can't be suppressed long.3% of everyone I knew locally died that first year, but for the first time I wasn't sick half the year (we also added hand sanitizer to masking as strep throat is easy to get from surfaces).
(DIR) Post #AjE0y3v0Uxcpb6UUGO by ehproque@paquita.masto.host
2024-06-23T16:44:00Z
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@futurebird but that's the "beauty" of the "flood the zone with shit" strategy, it's impossible to counter because whatever you debunk is yesterday's news, they've moved on to something else, and their target doesn't really care because they don't really want to achieve anything, just to hurt the Others (us)
(DIR) Post #AjE44hobNNPww1M1WS by EVDHmn@ecoevo.social
2024-06-23T17:18:47Z
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@futurebird I believe there is a cohesvive story and most scientists know what that and most agree if not radicalized or closed minded uninformed , however not all of it translates to the information flow of language and understanding to all populations or frame so perhaps we need a epidemiological or epistemic. psycho social psychology explanation as a mandatory course you have to pass a test and use full comprehensive model to understand it maybe? 🤔 I don’t know what the solution is.🥰
(DIR) Post #AjEB0YrxOUevi6tWL2 by Aviva_Gary@noc.social
2024-06-23T18:36:04Z
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@futurebird 2 things:People are really good at memory hole'ing things so they can survive (and think they did it all by themselves) so it wasn't so bad in the first placeBut Power Structures require this alt reality at all costsIt's the only way they are going to keep things where they are moneyed and happy/powerful?Having people remember what it was really like serves neither purpose but lots of people with PTSD is easy to take advantage of(they remember they almost lost it all) 🤔
(DIR) Post #AjECgv9j1VEUwoy4IK by DamonWakes@mastodon.sdf.org
2024-06-23T18:55:17Z
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@futurebird Conspiracy theorists are really quick to believe that they're all in on "the secret" and everybody in the know agrees with them, when actually they can't even settle on pretty crucial specifics. There was some survey a while ago that revealed that people who believed Bin Laden was still alive were more likely to believe he had been killed much earlier than was announced in the news. They want to feel as though they see through a cover-up even if they don't know what it is.
(DIR) Post #AjEj3VtgIX39npHR5M by RinostarGames@mastodon.gamedev.place
2024-06-24T00:57:51Z
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@futurebird Love how they went from "Trump invented the COVID vaccine" to "vaccines are bad and full of microchips and make your balls shrivel up."
(DIR) Post #AkSLX4r9VZRApdFUjA by futurebird@sauropods.win
2024-07-30T12:32:31Z
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@maggiejk @DecaturNature Many things were irrational in the way Ebola was handled ... and these cost lives since they made it harder for doctors to provide aid. It really showed how little the lives of African people were valued.
(DIR) Post #AkT3J6jq6sg2b7yf3o by DecaturNature@theatl.social
2024-07-30T20:41:25Z
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@maggiejk We had over 30 years of experience with Ebola by 2014. We knew how it was transmitted, and we'd seen many outbreaks contained in Africa. We knew that the US had the facilities to contain transmission from known cases. The risk of infection was something to take seriously (as doctors definitely did), but Trump paid no attention to the actual risks or available containment measures. Instead, he was willing to sacrifice someone based on his gut reaction. That is irrational.The article below recounts exactly what Trump said to do. His panicky approach would have hampered our efforts to contain the virus, creating even more risk for us.https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/386616-how-ebola-entered-the-american-consciousness-a-trump-tweet/@futurebird
(DIR) Post #AkUeaB1HKuzIGF63Xs by IngaLovinde@embracing.space
2024-07-31T15:15:05Z
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@futurebird "The things we had to do to stay safe before there was a vaccine"... this implies that we don't have to do them now that there is a vaccine? But we still have to do them to stay safe now...