Post AjDxaDc2VM8eqnYdSS by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
(DIR) More posts by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
(DIR) Post #Aj8JaWcjbdd9HxlFOS by yogthos@lemmy.ml
2024-06-20T18:40:02.882972Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
(DIR) Post #Aj8JaXUGOcRrxynzpQ by NoiseColor@startrek.website
2024-06-20T20:40:30.043861Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
This is really one sided. I’m not saying there isn’t truth in it, but there are also other factors.Communist revolutions can be bloody and can lead to authoritarian states. They can be inefficient and stifle innovation. It often was just a power grab not an attempt to make a country better for everyone.I wouldn’t want to live in the mid 20. century idea of communism. But otherwise I support that the means of production belongs to the worker and anyone affected by the production.
(DIR) Post #Aj8JaYXUU6clEHK5Uu by yogthos@lemmy.ml
2024-06-20T20:45:31.461214Z
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Authoritarian is a meaningless word that anti-communists love to use without thinking. Every state holds authority by virtue of having a monopoly on violence, period. The only question is whose interests the authority of the state is exercised in. There is also zero evidence that communist states are inefficient of stifle innovation. In fact, vast majority of meaningful innovation under capitalism happens in the public sector. Finally, every communist state has vastly improved living conditions for the majority of the people. I recommend actually learning a bit of history instead of regurgitating nonsense you’ve been indoctrinated into.
(DIR) Post #Aj8KyDtQzuse6JR6YK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T22:59:58Z
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@NoiseColor @yogthos 1/2 [Communist revolutions can be bloody and can lead to authoritarian states.] – Yes, revolutions can be bloody, whether they're communist or otherwise. That's not really unique of communist revolutions. "Authoritarian state" is a meaningless redundancy; there's no such thing as a non-authoritarian state. If your criticism is that the revolutions didn't immediately result in a communist society, then that's also a poor criticism since they were never meant to...
(DIR) Post #Aj8KzJmMbDd2e4ePyK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T23:00:10Z
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@NoiseColor @yogthos ...immediately transition to communism because that would be impossible, or at least strategically impractical. The plan of Marxist-Leninist revolutions was always to create a transitional state that would eventually transition into a stateless classless society once the state was no longer needed.
(DIR) Post #Aj8ZZkVC7Tg9JCszs8 by Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
2024-06-21T03:22:38+02:00
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I agree that revolutions can always be bloody, but when people say authoritarian, they mean a state where dissent is surpressed by violent means. At least in modern times, most western states (and, in fact, most states) don't suppress discourse as much as the USSR often did.
(DIR) Post #Aj8ZZlihak4t5ODIZ6 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T01:43:34Z
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@Aatube @yogthos @NoiseColor 1/3 [most western states (and, in fact, most states) don't suppress discourse as much as the USSR often did.]I have to partially disagree. While it is likely true that the USSR was more outward with its suppression methods than most western states today, countries, like America for example, do suppress dissent on a regular scale (Campus protest, George Floyd protest are just two notable examples, but there are plenty of more).
(DIR) Post #Aj8ZdZiABJsF03mCUS by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T01:44:18Z
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@Aatube @yogthos @NoiseColor 2/3 Also, speaking of America again, one of America's suppression methods is suppression through delusion, tricking people into thinking that they're actually free with constant propaganda in media and schools when the reality is that America is just as much (and maybe even more, since it's hard to compare the exact numbers to the Soviet Union) police presence and civilian surveillance as the Soviet Union did (but probably more surveillance given the advancements..
(DIR) Post #Aj8ZhXmbIFamB3kDYm by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T01:45:01Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Aatube @yogthos @NoiseColor 3/3 ...in technology) and all while having the largest prison population in the entire world, possibly being larger than the amount of prisoners in labor camps under Stalin (again, it's hard to compare since records from that era from the Soviet Union are lacking).
(DIR) Post #Aj8bDgUKYwDmOh5Xxg by Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
2024-06-21T03:56:38+02:00
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Oops, yeah, I forgot about that. But you actually see livestreamed debate about whether suppressing these protests was good (oftentimes it's highly criticized), and you don't just get prosecuted if you just express opinions online. Also, the campus protests were suppressed because the owners of the private property being protested on didn't like it. They get substantial funding from the state, but there's still a difference from the state itself doing it. Like socialists and flat-earthers don't get straight-up stamped out by police, whereas Stalin actively prosecuted people who didn't support pseudobiology.
(DIR) Post #Aj8bDheIFNmhzsl184 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T02:02:02Z
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@Aatube @yogthos @NoiseColor I'm not at all trying to suggest that Stalinist Russia was more free than modern-day America, just that many people think of America as a free country when it's actually closer to Stalinist Russia than they'd care to recognize.
(DIR) Post #Aj8dJdh04MgTN9yvnk by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2024-06-21T02:25:30Z
1 likes, 1 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom @NoiseColor @yogthos immediate transition is not only possible in theory but actually has some precedent (although so far it's only happened in the wrong place and time to last at scale for more than a few years). On the other hand expecting a transitional state to actually continue the transition is even less rational than expecting Jesus to show up and start helping.
(DIR) Post #Aj8dxJ91sxCREB0XNw by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T02:32:42Z
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@jeremy_list @NoiseColor @yogthos [immediate transition is not only possible in theory but actually has some precedent]– How is it possible in theory, and what precedent does it have?[expecting a transitional state to actually continue the transition is even less rational than expecting Jesus to show up and start helping]Why?
(DIR) Post #Aj8jAOoQcjNuLDQwPg by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2024-06-21T03:31:04Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @NoiseColor @yogthos Rosa Luxemburg explained all this better than I could and she wasn't even an anarchist (but really take your pick of almost any non-ML communist theorist).But in summary: implementing communism inherently deprives counterrevolution of the capital it needs to function, so any delay in implementing communism is at best a strategic error and at worst an indication that the org has already become counterrevolutionary.
(DIR) Post #Aj8kSlSPGla3juSDOy by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T03:45:37Z
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@jeremy_list @NoiseColor @yogthos [implementing communism inherently deprives counterrevolution of the capital it needs to function]Besides the threat of imperialism from other countries that would make creating a stateless society impossible to do now without it being invaded, you're making the act of creating communism sound much easier than it actually is, and you're also downplays the actually threat of counter-revolution as something that can be easily brushed away.
(DIR) Post #Aj8lRJ4nP3FtNmHMmm by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2024-06-21T03:56:32Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @NoiseColor @yogthos the threat of internal counter-revolution actually can be easily brushed away as thoroughly demonstrated by both logic and history: it's only a significant problem for projects that attempt a "transitional state".History also shows how directly implementing communism doesn't in itself make the project vulnerable to imperialism, but rather starting too small does.
(DIR) Post #Aj9viSdWJ0LkegId1M by Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
2024-06-21T18:37:48+02:00
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My point is that the United States is indeed much less authoritarian. Saying that there's no such thing as a state that's more authoritarian or less authoritarian is denying reality.
(DIR) Post #Aj9viTr1mGkUQrcviK by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T17:26:24Z
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@Aatube @yogthos @NoiseColor [Saying that there's no such thing as a state that's more authoritarian or less authoritarian is denying reality.]To clarify, that's not what I said. I said that there is no such thing as a non-authoritarian state because states are authoritarian by nature, not that there aren't varying degrees of the level of authoritarianism among different states. America is in many ways less authoritarian than the USSR, but it's still authoritarian nonetheless.
(DIR) Post #AjDxaBYQ9q3WSzqiXY by yogthos@lemmy.ml
2024-06-21T02:40:13.097264Z
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The actual reason anarchist experiments always fail is because they lack organization and structure necessary to keep them going. Maybe if spent some time to learn what a state is, then you wouldn’t feel the need to make inane statements like this.
(DIR) Post #AjDxaCT8kxQTIuO0wq by Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
2024-06-21T18:58:27+02:00
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The actual reason most anarchist places fail is because they lack military power. Places that are actually recognized like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania still run today.
(DIR) Post #AjDxaDAOAA1LT2cYMK by yogthos@lemmy.ml
2024-06-21T17:04:00.131782Z
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These things go hand in hand. Military power requires organization, ability to create industry, build factories, have a trained workforce, and so on. Creating these things requires having some form of central planning and authority. This is an excellent read on the subject incidentally …medium.com/where-do-tanks-come-from-8723ff77d83b
(DIR) Post #AjDxaDc2VM8eqnYdSS by jeremy_list@hachyderm.io
2024-06-21T20:03:50Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@yogthos @Aatube "creating these things requires having some form of central planning and authority" is literal superstition.