Post AjD7SFRIdM4OaDPciu by EredYasibu@mastodon.ml
(DIR) More posts by EredYasibu@mastodon.ml
(DIR) Post #Aj7ulSkXqtnNbZX6fo by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T18:06:19Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
I no longer think anarchists are rational when they advocate for the immediate abolition of the state. Even when I was an AnCom I always had to try and figure out how an anarchist society would deal with counter-revolutionaries, fascists, reactionaries, and the many common criminals in the absence of any coercive institutions, but every solution I came to was always some kind of state and police force, ie, coercive institutions. A phased approach into statelessness seems far more rational.
(DIR) Post #Aj7w6HAGDktli338XA by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T18:21:18Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@richardemepham I don't see how that could work with no violence at all.
(DIR) Post #Aj7yqrbvFN6DyTKYy0 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T18:52:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@richardemepham Well, the way I see it, some form of coercion will be necessary to prevent counter-revolution and as a general means of societal defense.
(DIR) Post #Aj830WxZHTTmdhJv5k by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-20T19:38:39Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@richardemepham Well, if 99% of the population wants socialism, but 1% (not necessarily the rich) doesn't, does that mean they just stop the socialist revolution? What percentage is necessary? Completely 100%? Because that's likely never going to happen.
(DIR) Post #Aj9ZdHMiaMLrG8Z3mi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T13:18:51Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djuuss [what's with this fetishisation of the rational anyway?]– I don't even know how to respond to this. Are you saying it's somehow virtuous to be less rational?[Abolish money, class, authority first. From each to each, etc.]– Abolishing money, class, and authority is the goal, but what is the plan to achieving that goal? The best plan I've come across is a transitional state to transition society into communism.
(DIR) Post #Aj9cdvL4GUuZ64n8oC by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T13:52:38Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djuuss [once we've reached the extreme of rationality and discounted lyrical, exstatic forces that are equally part of the human psyche, then yes, to be 'less rational' could indeed be virtuous.]– That's not at all a justifiable reason to be less rational. To have a rational plan ensures success. One can appeal to other aspects of the human psyche, such as emotion, without abandoning rationality.
(DIR) Post #Aj9cgaHZ0d9GezQAkq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T13:53:07Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djuuss [all that dry rationality offers us is the necessity, and perhaps some grim, teeth-clenched determination that .. inspires noone.]– It's not true that rationality doesn't inspire anyone. I've certainly been inspired by rational arguments, and not only would I not be inspired by an irrational argument, but I wouldn't be able to take it seriously due to its irrationally, and the same holds true for many people. I don't deny the effects emotional arguments can have in convincing...
(DIR) Post #Aj9cgwDPSktigTeAKm by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T13:53:16Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djuuss ...people, but if there isn't a level of rationality added then no matter how convincing the argument is it will be inherently flawed.
(DIR) Post #Aj9dx5o7fQ4x1N5OiG by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-21T14:07:19Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@djuuss That's a mistake on my part. When I said "abandoning rationality," I wasn't suggesting that you're advocating for the complete abandoning of rationality. I was arguing that being less rational is not only not necessary to convince people to take revolutionary action, but that it would actually hurt a revolutionary movement.
(DIR) Post #AjD7SFRIdM4OaDPciu by EredYasibu@mastodon.ml
2024-06-23T06:22:03Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom Judging from your posts, you somehow think that anarchists believe that when the revolution comes, everything is fine, counter-revolutionaries will not take up arms, etc, even though they don't think that way
(DIR) Post #AjDSoGpkEETGJdBl8S by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T10:21:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@EredYasibu Anarchists don't seem to have any definitive way of dealing with counter-revolutionaries without creating what is essentially a state with laws, but they don't call them "states" or "laws," they call them "societies" with "rules" because "every society has rules," not realizing that it is mere semantics what they're doing.
(DIR) Post #AjDoaKDd2lQxkh7Eki by EredYasibu@mastodon.ml
2024-06-23T14:25:20Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Radical_EgoCom The state is a centralized hierarchical body of the minority to rule and oppress the majority, the essential feature of which is its distance from the people. The state in this sense is of course not wanted by anarchists. But they are not against defending the revolution and organizing people in general. Another question is how this organization and defense is arranged: a federation of self-governing comunnas and syndicates from the bottom up, with power in the hands of the people themselves, or a supposedly proletarian state with power in the hands of the few in the name of the power of the people.
(DIR) Post #AjDrI4PbNGVdNUheIS by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T14:55:41Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@EredYasibu 1/2 To me, a proletarian state controlled by a vanguard party appears to be the most practical option. A proletarian state, with centralized control over the revolution, can more easily defend the revolution from counter-revolution and invading forces because with all forces being centralized and organized under the state, actions can be taken much faster than in a decentralized organization.
(DIR) Post #AjDrLzOxwbO2ztH4Xg by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-23T14:56:23Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@EredYasibu 2/2 There is still the issue of the party potentially becoming detached from the people, but the solution to this isn't to just abandon the concept of a proletarian state, along with all of its benefits. The solution is to structure the party and the state in such a way where the people and the party are always connected with open communication both ways and that makes the party members accountable to the people, preventing them from becoming a new ruling class.