Post Aj3WXUbiyPy7mRNCTI by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
(DIR) More posts by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
(DIR) Post #Aj3JvhNFrOm4vAoixM by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T12:54:45Z
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So we keep seeing this cycle where some cool new AI doodad - instant music, instant images etc. - makes the Internet lose its mind and then... people stop caring. I think there's a long-standing myth that what makes humans happy is beauty. I think of for example, Bellamy's book "Looking Backward" where he imagines in the year 2000 you'll have 4 radio stations you can listen to any time playing music as the height of human joy.
(DIR) Post #Aj3K0kmacA1EwO4sOu by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T12:55:39Z
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I'm a believer in the value of beautiful stuff, but it's no good if people don't have a sense of security and autonomy, and THAT comes from increased wealth and productivity. And the problem is so far AI is delivering on "you can have a new art piece any time you like" but not on "your dishes are clean, go enjoy a book."
(DIR) Post #Aj3KAn5CuuUcyFZWm8 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T12:57:29Z
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I don't think the problem is purely a "hedonic treadmill" issue either. I think we have fundamentally understood ourselves as wanting "the best" of things in infinite quantity. And yet everyone knows you'd rather have a perfect day at the beach with your kids than the best champagne and a call from a celebrity.
(DIR) Post #Aj3KE9axfpU1ey1p9E by jenzi@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T12:58:04Z
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@ZachWeinersmith These instant AI things, getting instant answers to anything or generating any kind of image has caused in me some existential dread. What's the point of learning, I can ask, don't bother to dream up new creations - people are doing it en masse! It just seems like nothing is left after these things came out - we're done.
(DIR) Post #Aj3KHQFiCO6YBqeDi4 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T12:58:40Z
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What I don't understand is why we continually make this mistake. One guess is that we want pleasure, so we assume we should just grab at pleasurable things, but it turns out the road to happiness isn't direct - it runs through things like autonomy, connection, burdens carried.
(DIR) Post #Aj3KLXxTUTcxFQ5GpE by Lyle@cville.online
2024-06-18T12:59:23Z
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@ZachWeinersmith easier to deliver pleasurable things than things that create real security and joy
(DIR) Post #Aj3KOvvGqcduROfTXs by arina@girlcock.club
2024-06-18T12:59:57Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I mean, I don't think it's *us* making the mistake per se. It's the executive class trying to cut costs (with AI) and then trying to sell it to people as "you can have beautiful art at any moment".
(DIR) Post #Aj3KWjLXURe3kjfm2y by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:01:26Z
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@arina I think this is an ongoing process that starts with mass media though. I kvetch about e.g. social media CEOs pushing bad algorithms, but none of this stuff works without complicit consumers, self included.
(DIR) Post #Aj3KZn0sJW0hzfSxDU by mighty_orbot@retro.pizza
2024-06-18T13:01:58Z
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@ZachWeinersmith People say that, but forget that we now have machines that turn the chore of washing dishes or laundry from an hour-long effort into five minutes of emptying the machine and loading it again. Sensors detect the amount of dirt in the water and adjust the wash cycle automatically, then dry it again in the same machine. Machines already solved the chore of washing dishes, so people gripe about the simple act of loading and emptying it instead.
(DIR) Post #Aj3KdBTrnfymkOe4Yq by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:02:35Z
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(incidentally, there are ways AI has delivered, a little bit on the autonomy stuff. As an example - I had some foraged vegetables and was able to get GPT4 to generate a recipe for the exact quantity I had. It was good! I just wish there were more use-cases like this -- perhaps in the future)
(DIR) Post #Aj3L03XRUnOGm7Dx0C by bodhipaksa@mastodon.scot
2024-06-18T13:06:43Z
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@ZachWeinersmith "I'm a believer in the value of beautiful stuff, but it's no good if people don't have a sense of security and autonomy, and THAT comes from increased wealth and productivity."The wealth has to be accessible to everyone, rather than it being grabbed by the top 0.1%, leaving everyone else struggling to stay afloat. Related to this, any excitement about AI is tempered by the fear that it's going to put a lot of people out of work.
(DIR) Post #Aj3L9uQ8FbaXONVEw4 by DrorBedrack@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:08:30Z
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@ZachWeinersmith AI "Art" is beautiful in the same way the sea is beautiful. It the same way a random collection of stones can be beautiful. It doesn't have a human element, so I find it hard to call it "art". So, yes, I can say "wow" , and carry on with my day.
(DIR) Post #Aj3LAG001RkyJhRgG0 by arina@girlcock.club
2024-06-18T13:08:33Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I mean, what do you want complicit consumers to *do*? Flee Facebook and Twitter? This isn't something that can be done just because Zuck and Musk decided to start screwing everyone over even more.
(DIR) Post #Aj3Li0mv5BuyzEQHx2 by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:14:41Z
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@arina Clearly they should all go to Mastodon :D
(DIR) Post #Aj3LrLdMwnJIFHPKwy by tj@howse.social
2024-06-18T13:16:18Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I'm already living in a world where there's more amazing music than I could ever hear, more brilliant movies than I could ever watch, et cetera. There isn't a scarcity of pleasurable information.People are chucking a lot of AI stuff at the wall to see what sticks. In a few years' time whatever's left might be more worthwhile. The dot com bubble generally improved the world, by my measure, even if 80% of it fell on its face.
(DIR) Post #Aj3MCfqB0z42zpZES8 by bencurthoys@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:20:13Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Enough work, enough rest, enough recreation.
(DIR) Post #Aj3MSPtS4dbeAcbd3o by erinaceus@fosstodon.org
2024-06-18T13:23:02Z
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@ZachWeinersmith As long as it does not advise you to glue the vegetables together… :D
(DIR) Post #Aj3MrBbqJoBX6oBFrc by JustinH@twit.social
2024-06-18T13:27:26Z
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@ZachWeinersmith If someone had a machine that did their dishes, that time ""reclaimed"" would be reallocated to work, as it always is. It's why we can't have machines that can like, pay our rent. If such machine was invented, the price of rent would increase to infinity-plus-what-it-was-before.(This isn't a "well ackchually" I totally vibe with your overall point!!)https://www.staygrounded.online/p/not-making-romantic-partnership-better
(DIR) Post #Aj3PSnMN7rWCoS0NsG by lightninhopkins@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T13:56:45Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I dunno, Spotify sure make my kids pretty happy.
(DIR) Post #Aj3QeJbteyDjyWK8si by Sqlgene@techhub.social
2024-06-18T14:09:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith @arina I think the complicit consumer thing is a bit complicated. I'd like to go on Facebook to keep up with my friends and family, but unironically it feels like a third of the posts are ads and more importantly, a third are posts from groups or pages I'm not involved in that are algorithmically injected into my feed.I would like to do X, but it feels more and more like I'm the fish trying to get the bait without getting caught on the hook.
(DIR) Post #Aj3RmCBTFofvDKHilM by oblomov@sociale.network
2024-06-18T14:22:38Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I think mostly it's found out that (1) AI isn't actually that good (2) even when the results are esthetically appealing, it's not really art.
(DIR) Post #Aj3WXUbiyPy7mRNCTI by Phosphenes@glasgow.social
2024-06-18T15:15:59Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I derive a lot more happiness from what I produce than what I consume. Teaching a kid how to swim, or inventing a doodad that people find useful, or writing a post that gets likes, etc. Most people are the same this way, but our whole economy/civilization is based on the opposite assumption.
(DIR) Post #Aj3hE4K3ZiqyFj39Ga by bulletsweetp@mastodon.world
2024-06-18T17:15:45Z
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@ZachWeinersmith That’s why I think even “dishes are done, go read a book” would not do the trick. Anything you want whenever you want it leads quickly to insanity
(DIR) Post #Aj3jCT3opQ7EJ0oq4e by ZachWeinersmith@mastodon.social
2024-06-18T17:37:53Z
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@pixx <3 Thanks!
(DIR) Post #Aj3ryVWRmIn7TRcyau by Crell@phpc.social
2024-06-18T19:16:08Z
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@ZachWeinersmith Because happiness == input points to consume is how capitalism thinks, has to think, and so how it forces everyone to think.You are identifying one of the key foundational problems of capitalism.
(DIR) Post #Aj4wzBWwHseggixaoi by L0wKey@mastodon.online
2024-06-19T07:47:04Z
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@ZachWeinersmith I think your example here highlights both the immense potential and the issue for the AI companies. The best most joy inducing use case for ‘AI’ is taking a boring, unwanted or otherwise unpleasant task and reducing or removing the friction. In your case, having to manually adjust a comllicated set of instructions for a very personal and specific use case quickly. It is the antithesis of this to take away a satisfying activity (like making art). But boring is hard to sell.