Post AiSyJVafdNXQeyp2aO by ceartas@mastodon.world
(DIR) More posts by ceartas@mastodon.world
(DIR) Post #AiSrvFcIlyy2RYdREe by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-31T22:51:20Z
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The police are nothing more than the guard dogs of the stolen wealth of capitalists.
(DIR) Post #AiSs6FGwOV74Ynt0cq by gumpfloyd@mastodon.social
2024-05-31T22:53:18Z
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@Radical_EgoCom The wealthy "donates" lots of money to them and that buys something
(DIR) Post #AiStteuRxpjeDUUadk by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-05-31T23:13:26Z
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@Radical_EgoCom I like the term "dumb thugs."
(DIR) Post #AiSuB7Aq8BkcneTxPE by Aknorals@mastodon.social
2024-05-31T23:16:36Z
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@Radical_EgoCom The problem with this anemic "critique" of cops is it fundamentally doesn't understand that even without capitalists, police would still be a horrific force or violence and rape. Police are monsters inherently, and ONLY having a problem with them because of who you imagine holds the reigns is voluntarily opening yourself up to their indefinite existence.
(DIR) Post #AiSwgpAcnpoi8cd6Nk by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-05-31T23:44:45Z
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@Aknorals My goal is to abolish capitalism and transition into communism through worker's councils, and during this transition, I feel as though it would be necessary to have some form of police to maintain order during the transition.#communism #capitalism
(DIR) Post #AiSy5XpcVMvzYZ9kem by Aknorals@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:00:25Z
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@Radical_EgoCom cool. Cops don't give a flying fuck who you are. They will not answer to your orders. They are a force of violence onto themselves. You must be extremely privileged to think they create order. Like, look up what "cavity search" and tell me what it's called when a civilian does it.KYLR includes all cops. Their allies are enemies of humanity, Marxist.
(DIR) Post #AiSyJVafdNXQeyp2aO by ceartas@mastodon.world
2024-06-01T00:02:55Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Aknorals Hoping there’s no guard dog of stolen memes…
(DIR) Post #AiSyXpbm0O3QnYASae by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:05:31Z
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@Aknorals These aren't very good arguments against the necessity of a police force to maintain order. If there is no police force at all, how could order be maintained during a transitional phase between capitalism and communism?
(DIR) Post #AiSybheZWUtfHjK5Gy by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:06:13Z
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@ceartas @Aknorals What do you mean?
(DIR) Post #AiSzQ2Yo47jEbdd35c by Aknorals@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:15:19Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Literally everything you said is based on the musing of Some Guy in the 19th century, without actually examining 20th and 21st century revolutions. (Not to mention it erases indigenous peoples or pre-police systems) You first have to prove that cops establish/maintain order. If such is the case, why would that EVER stop?Also, it you don't think cops having special rights to rape people isn't a disqualification got their existence, you are a rape supporter.
(DIR) Post #AiT05WJULjiGkwF8IS by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:22:48Z
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@Aknorals In a socialist transitional period there will still be domestic crimes, reactionary revolts, and international threats, all of which would require some sort of police force (for internal issues) and military (for external threats) to maintain order, and I think it wouldn't be a good idea to not have police/military at all.
(DIR) Post #AiT08ar3v9Sni5Pd0S by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:23:22Z
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@Radical_EgoCom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTwxpTyGUOI&t=0
(DIR) Post #AiT0SgWEZV9d4JFaWu by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:27:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom What would you say to the idea of voluntary millitas and folks being allowed to do self-defense when necessary? I think you are misguided to suggest a state is necessary. I think you should consider giving anark a watch. :)
(DIR) Post #AiT0aiQ5O88hHSCi5Q by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:28:27Z
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@aeleoglyphic I'm not advocating for a state, at least not in the traditional sense of the word. I think that workers' councils should govern society during the transition period. But how is this relevant to what I said about the necessity of a police force/military?
(DIR) Post #AiT0jBzLKvHtIpjmQi by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:29:59Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Do you agree that for police/military to exist you need a state?
(DIR) Post #AiT17N47nsnAbkVGUq by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:34:22Z
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@aeleoglyphic Yes, some kind of proletarian state would be necessary in the scenario I'm presenting, but not a state in the traditional sense. The "state" that I'm advocating for would essentially just be a collection of workers' councils, and the police that would exist within it would be completely decentralized.
(DIR) Post #AiT1m3DuTt9CwQTgtE by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:41:34Z
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@Radical_EgoCom So why is what I said not applicable? If you watch the video I provided it will point out why a state ends up being counter-revolutionary. I think you should genuinely resconsider your beliefs regarding states. I think it is dangerous to advocate for structures that will lead to a concentration of power instead of voluntary systems. You can't force people to stop doing crime. A monpoly on force in any capacity isn't the solution.
(DIR) Post #AiT2yjLnmKWd1fmMzo by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:43:44Z
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@Radical_EgoCom It's really hard to stay silent when I saw you as an anarchist. We were allies when people went against anarchism. You don't have to give up your anarchist tendencies to get communism. You can get a stateless society without police. It's happened before.
(DIR) Post #AiT2ykOft8PwGs8B72 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:55:12Z
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@aeleoglyphic I still want to create an anarchist society, but I'm no longer convinced that it would be wise to abolish the state or police immediately. Marxist-Leninist states did end up becoming counter-revolutionary, but that was due to the high levels of centralization and bureaucracy. Council Communism and Luxemburgism seem to me like practical systems to prevent counter-revolution.
(DIR) Post #AiT324DSepqibkT8Ea by aeleoglyphic@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T00:55:49Z
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@Radical_EgoCom Will you at least watch the video I sent?
(DIR) Post #AiT3EQ5p96srvsmqg4 by rvinson@liberdon.com
2024-06-01T00:58:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @aeleoglyphic
(DIR) Post #AiTy44ffdEERz9lGEa by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T11:34:47Z
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@punissuer @violetmadder @aeleoglyphic That's exactly my position.
(DIR) Post #AiUAnkI6w2YtY5Hlrc by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T13:57:34Z
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@aeleoglyphic I used to be convinced that voluntary militias were enough to defend the revolution, but after further study, I no longer believe that. Voluntary militias don't seem to be capable of having the scale, coordination, or long-term sustainability needed to withstand counter-revolutionary forces and prevent the restoration of capitalist power.
(DIR) Post #AiUDiSsKYikrwuOtpA by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T14:30:14Z
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@violetmadder @punissuer @aeleoglyphic Some of these pieces of the state are necessary to eliminate capitalist culture and tendencies, redistribute resources, and defend against reactionism and counter-revolution while all of this is happening, so, from this perspective, not preserving these pieces until such a time is necessary to abandon them would derail the revolution.
(DIR) Post #AiUSWY0x7o77j1D1NY by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T17:16:09Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals 1/2 A lot of what you said is blatantly false. While the police are ineffective in preventing certain types of crimes, they do respond to/investigate various crimes, including domestic crimes, and sometimes, while not often enough, intervene in reactionary and right-wing behavior, and a force like this would be even more necessary during a transitional state into communism, when the threats will be multiplied.
(DIR) Post #AiUSXjHohXykySf1Ie by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T17:16:23Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals 2/2 Also, I'm not convinced that community members alone are enough to ensure safety. Community support and solidarity are valuable assets, but it may not be enough to address all of the specific challenges that a revolution would entail.
(DIR) Post #AiUWUcUBvcLmpaDn16 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T18:00:38Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals What you're saying is very easily disputable. There are countless instances where law enforcement officers intervene in ongoing crimes and prevent future criminal activity. I'm not a fan of bourgeois police, but I recognize that some sort of police force would be necessary during the transition from capitalism to a stateless, classless communist society.
(DIR) Post #AiUf1aVZ6OG5t15yNs by Aknorals@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T19:36:13Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong I've had cops in the family and they literally do not consider non-cops to be people. Remember Uvalde? Nothing will be different under your "socialist" pig force.Personally, I don't want to replace serial torturer Jon Burge with serial rapist Lavrentiy Beria.
(DIR) Post #AiUfzbiJkSPd06gCMi by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T19:47:04Z
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@Aknorals @bugsong You're taking examples of cops within a capitalist society in a select few context and coming to a hastily generalized conclusion about the behavior of cops under a completely different system of goverment, excluding that the police in this hypothetical transitional socialist state would be decentralized and have a radically different structure than police under capitalism, disputing any presumptions that they're guaranteed to act exactly the same.
(DIR) Post #AiUkIejBANytfPQAtc by Aknorals@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T20:35:20Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong The 20th century literally happened. A basic understanding of how power works is necessary before analyzing any theoretical framework.I'm not going to kick your football, Lucy.
(DIR) Post #AiUlBOPhWX3WzqPXk0 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T20:45:12Z
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@Aknorals @bugsong I have an understanding of the nature of power in relation to the political ideologies I've examined. When I speak of a transitional state, I'm speaking from a Luxemburgist/Council Communist perspective. It seems slightly unfair that you're judging what I'm proposing based on the history and actions of Marxism-Leninism, when it and what I'm proposing are not the same.
(DIR) Post #AiUrY1572NRz1Dx51M by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T21:56:32Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals Some Luxemburgists and Council Communists advocate for a transitional state as a temporary measure to transition to a stateless society.Luxemburgism/Council Communism doesn't share the same level of centralization or any of the bureaucracy of Leninism, so any parallels made between them aren't justified.
(DIR) Post #AiV0nPyFgGkE8vA5Xk by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-01T23:40:10Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals You are straw manning my position. I am well aware that in any police force, there would be "bad apples." That is precisely why I advocate for a completely decentralized police force, unlike the very hierarchical and centralized police force that we have today.I also believe in the power of community. I'm just not deceiving myself into believing that a community without a police force or military to protect them and maintain order will be able to survive for long.
(DIR) Post #AiV3TTofyOmu8lrp3o by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T00:10:11Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals You are once again the straw manning my position, albeit only slightly this time. I absolutely believe that it is possible for people to survive without cops, but only in the right environment, and that environment has to be made first, made through a transitional state between our current system and a stateless, classless society.
(DIR) Post #AiV598xlzlsLa8YL20 by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T00:28:55Z
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@bugsong @Aknorals I'm very skeptical that the message actually was received, the message being that I'm not trolling.
(DIR) Post #AiVCCFILbqg9lebQWW by Tiempo@todon.eu
2024-06-02T01:47:53Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @Aknorals I'm sorry but this time, I think, you are loosing some focus. The police/military IS the state. While there is any kind of force that happens in the outside of the community there will be state, and the state, compa, isn't gonna evaporate all by itself. Any kind of organization that takes force out of communities and take it for itself is gonna perpetuate itself for eternity as it is the end of any kind of elite.If your worry is about security in the aftermath of the war, creating o perpetuating a police/military institution is gonna send revolution through the window. What is needed is what has been used during most of human history: self organized communities where everyone takes care of everyone.Data even shows that more police is less effective than better material conditions (social and individual kind of material condition, like having a park) to diminishing crime. All reactionary agents will keep fighting for a time, but if you didn't need a professional military then, you bet you are gonna need it less after revolution. Securing everyone safety through community caring is the best net against reactionaries as they need malcontent to keep the struggle, not a new red army (decentralized or not)
(DIR) Post #AiVD2rojd4oEIiqLsu by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T01:57:25Z
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@Tiempo @bugsong @Aknorals You made several claims that are untrue, but I'll focus on the main one, that being that community self-organization is enough to address all safety concerns. Communities might not have the skills or tools needed to handle serious security issues like organized crime or attacks from outside, problems that professional security forces, like police or military, are specialized in dealing with.
(DIR) Post #AiVDYKaghTp4W8HBM8 by Tiempo@todon.eu
2024-06-02T02:03:05Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @Aknorals why I have that feeling that you envision communal organization as a bunch of people with fear in their eyes and a broom?
(DIR) Post #AiVExZlLWpHWlXrZQW by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T02:18:53Z
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@Tiempo @bugsong @Aknorals Because you have a misconception of my position, perhaps.
(DIR) Post #AiVF3ztbHMMvYOmmY4 by Tiempo@todon.eu
2024-06-02T02:20:01Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @Aknorals Then we need better clarifications, as it looks like it, compa
(DIR) Post #AiVGCjE6ixGMPp6Zns by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T02:32:50Z
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@Tiempo @bugsong @Aknorals This is the best I can clarify:Communities may lack skills/tools necessary to handle serious threats like organized crime or external attacks, areas where professional security forces, like the police and military, excel.
(DIR) Post #AiVGnjoFWHEAwDepcm by Tiempo@todon.eu
2024-06-02T02:39:30Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @bugsong @Aknorals ok. Questions:Where do this professionals will come from?What is the difference about training a bunch of people and train the whole communities in self defense?How can you be sure that this professionals will follow comunal ruling?Can you be sure that they will vanish into oblivion? When will it happen? How it will be triggered?What will prevent it of doing a Julius Caesar move at some point?
(DIR) Post #AiVIOHlKrPLscXHmMa by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T02:57:20Z
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@Tiempo @bugsong @Aknorals 1/2 I'll answer in order, but next time, please only ask one question at a time; it's easier to have a conversation that way• the population of citizens • it's unrealistic to expect every single person to be skilled enough to defend all of society all the time 24/7. Having a special group of people to do this is more practical • strong oversight mechanisms, accountability measures, and a commitment to democratic principles within the community
(DIR) Post #AiVIRZPlgdJUEilR4K by Radical_EgoCom@mastodon.social
2024-06-02T02:57:55Z
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@Tiempo @bugsong @Aknorals 2/2 • I'm not a fortune teller. I can't see into the future, but I can deduce that once global communism had been achieved and the state had transitioned society to communism, the need for a police force/military would be significantly reduced, possibly to nothing• a system of checks and balances, separation of powers, rule of law, and free and fair elections prevents any individual from gaining unchecked power and becoming a dictator in a democratic government
(DIR) Post #AiYhFxVuML4Tt6RPqS by ceartas@mastodon.world
2024-06-03T18:20:02Z
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@Radical_EgoCom @Aknorals Apologies, I sometimes miss notifications. I meant that I stole your meme.