Post AcvzMYON3DDhdRbzPM by tfardet@fediscience.org
(DIR) More posts by tfardet@fediscience.org
(DIR) Post #AcvzMOtYMQDmBG7kci by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:53:39Z
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I've seen lots of takes regarding threads.net starting federating and what that might imply for the #Fediverse lately (I'll link a few at the end of this thread).I'd like to discuss and address some of the points that have been raised over and over in one single place:1. for #Facebook/#Meta this is not really about us fedizens2. thou shall not gatekeep!3. block those who don't block (please don't)4. they can already get our data (not legally, no)1/N#Threads #surveillanceCapitalism
(DIR) Post #AcvzMQ5ztdllu8xCeu by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:53:51Z
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1. It's not about usThis one is both true and false, IMO.Going for ActivityPub compatibility (broadly speaking) is definitely in the interest of Meta for two independent reasons:- as a sign of goodwill towards regulators- as a marketing strategy to steal people from its main competitors (X/Twitter and Bluesky)In that sense, getting fedizen data is probably low on their agenda (I'll discuss this at the end).However, I don't the choice of AP (rather than AT or nostr) is innocuous.2/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMQvOoWt0TZ0FmK by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:53:59Z
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1. It's not totally about us (but it actually kind of is)I believe another reason behind Meta's choice to go for AP is the nature of the Fediverse itself.People at Meta are smart and don't make decisions lightly.They decided going for AP was the best response to the existential threat (for them) of decentralized (and especially citizen-driven) social networks.The truth is we are the weakest ecosystem against their standard strategies: multiple stakeholders, diverging interests, etc.3/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMRlVgmZP5BNs0G by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:08Z
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1. It is quite a bit about usI think Meta has identified the Fediverse as the easiest prey for its "interoperability" move.We are significantly under-prepared for dealing with their arrival on both technical and social fronts (though many people have done their best).AP normalization is a work in progress at best and communities are as divided as they've ever been.One hope I have comes from EU and state governments now having Mastodon instances, which might limit Meta's EEE game.4/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMSd2TlO7lCQcRE by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:18Z
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2. Thou shall not gatekeep!There's an inherent problem with this framing, but we need to address the issue of cutting fedizen from people they may want to interact with (on threads.net).First, let it be said that this is not gatekeeping. We're not merely talking about individuals, but about a behemoth with a well-known (and horrifying) track record.It is perfectly reasonable for admin to feel they have a duty of protecting people on their instance from one of the web's worst actors.5/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMTRNSbecHJyots by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:27Z
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Unfortunately, Masto and most of Fedi only provide crude ways of protecting people instance-wide. Two-way defederation (AKA suspension) of an instance is often the only way to prevent people's posts from ending up on Meta's servers by default.Hopefully, some platforms will implement more fine-grained tools.Maybe something based on the 1-way federation that Lemmy implements: people could follow others on threads.net but no data would be sent there unless the person explicitly requests it.6/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMU7YvlOkO9iVea by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:36Z
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This brings me to the matter of enabling people to choose freely how they want to handle their data on Fedi.I hope we can design systems were people can choose very precisely what threads.net can access and admin can set safe defaults without taking that choice away.In the meantime, we need instances that block to protect their folks and other that enable their members to talk will people on threads.net, and both are compatible, so as for3. block those who don't block...please don't7/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMUwxqeVyxZlYm0 by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:46Z
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3. Don't block instances federating with MetaUnless I've really missed something (I don't think I have but correct me if it's the case), instances blocking Meta can use the authorized_fetch option to make sure that no content is sent to Meta even if they federate with instances that also federate with threads.netSo if your goal is to protect your people from Meta and your instance has that option, N+1 defederation is not necessary.See e.g. https://hub.sunny.garden/2023/06/28/what-does-authorized_fetch-actually-do/ for Mastodon8/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMVkas8DJRUzC88 by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:54:55Z
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This leads us to the last item is the following true?4. Meta can already get our data!Technically, they could scrape all public posts and profiles and (with more difficulty) unlisted posts. They cannot access followers-only posts if we don't federate with them.Legally, they cannot do that for EU citizens, though, as they don't fulfill any of the 6 requirements to get what likely contains personal data.Furthermore, it goes against many instances ToS.So they could, but not legally.9/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMWnoxcOChnVHnc by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:55:09Z
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4. Meta cannot legally get our data unless we federateBut if we do, then they can legally get all public posts and profiles (legitimate interest), plus all unlisted and followers-only posts as long as someone on threads.net is following the account, and any direct message to someone on threads.net, obviously.That's quite a bit of a difference.And it's probably data they don't have so much, given the local crowd, so it has value.That's why it makes sense for admins to block Meta.10/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMXg3hxm5Q0sbL6 by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:55:27Z
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So please, don't say blocking Meta is nonsense, don't say it's gatekeeping. Don't harass or insult people who block, nor those who don't.It does raise a lot of questions that we'll need to answer collectively.We won't agree, but I don't see any technical reason for it to break Fedi apart.Ideally, I hope non-personal and official accounts will federate, as it will let people on threads.net see the alternatives (and maybe move over?)But personal accounts that want it need safe spaces.11/N
(DIR) Post #AcvzMYON3DDhdRbzPM by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T10:57:44Z
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I've mentioned many issues, so let's end this thread with some proposals!By order of importance:1. Keep the officials on the non-corporate Fedi! We need them and their instances2. (Fund/help) work on granular #federation so people can be protected by default and choose when they want something sent to threads.net3. (Fund/help) work on what #Meta cannot provide: people-first tools to curate their feeds (e.g. customizable filters)And to all those who already do, thank you, you're amazing!
(DIR) Post #AcvzMZC04gv27MpclU by tfardet@fediscience.org
2023-12-18T11:00:32Z
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Conclusion: I think Meta's move is well calculated, but not without dangers for them too, this could indeed be an opportunity for citizen social networks to shine, but it won't be easy and we need to ensure people who are at risk from Meta are indeed protected.And as promised, here are other people's thoughts on the matter:- https://reb00ted.org/tech/20231208-meta-threads-data-dialogue/- https://merveilles.town/@lrhodes/111585317442029971- https://about.scicomm.xyz/doku.php?id=blog:2023:0625_meta_on_the_fediverse_to_block_or_not_to_block- https://mastodonapp.uk/@ArtBear/111597497339529973- https://fedipact.online/whyThe end.