Post AcjLX6lmeITvbCCm7E by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
(DIR) More posts by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
(DIR) Post #AcixkVK0HM7obt49LM by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T05:58:39.325566Z
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@ecsdThere were no “West promises re NATO”, while there’s plenty of binding (international agreement level) assurances Russia made which it had since violated. @daniel_wengelin @randahl
(DIR) Post #Acixl4ydiGQVC3Lb2e by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-11T13:49:57Z
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There are 5 days until the House of Representatives closes down for the Christmas holidays, and this is the look on tv host Olga Skabeyeva’s face, as Russian state tv is doing a segment on the wonderful news, that Republicans are killing the support for Ukraine.This is where we are. The Russians are celebrating the Republican party, while they eye a chance to crush democracy and expand the Russian empire into Ukraine and beyond.Source: https://youtu.be/krZE4j1tfYc?si=O0yFiTyOLE92Yd9r
(DIR) Post #Acixl5xy2FU0GG2ZdI by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-11T18:40:01Z
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@randahl We hear that, don't we, from the MSM: "the Russians eye a chance to crush democracy and expand the Russian empire into Ukraine and beyond."But there's no evidence for that beyond the mere assertion. Had the West honored Minsk 2, Ukraine would be intact today. If you look for /proof/ that Russia has imperial ambitions, you won't find any, but that doesn't stop the MSM from repeating the assertion to keep the public in line: yes, we all hate Russia as directed, Boss.Russia, Russia.Russia, nothing.The sooner Americans face the fact that IT IS THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT WHICH IS THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF THE WORLD'S PROBLEMS and that pointing fingers elsewhere solves nothing, the sooner we can get about FIXING things. Step One, remove from office all the blithering idiots conducting U.S. Foreign Policy: the US does not need to CONFRONT everyone, and sorely needs to find another way now. RUSSIA AND CHINA DO NOT BOTHER ME. There is no need to accuse Russia of INTENT, one only needs to watch what they in fact do, and they have not been trying to "amass empire." Same for the Chinese. They can wait another 100 years to resolve Taiwan, if that's what it takes. Surely we can also merely observe, rather than insist upon imminent nasty -- intentions. DESIRING the unification is surely no crime, though. And finally, Israel -- deserves to no longer exist, and AIPAC must be driven out of America.America is not exceptional. As we know: we are each unique. Just like everyone else. Given any thing, chances are excellent that someone's better at it than you. So learn to live humbly, and we can all live.Find proof NOT from the usual sources that Russia, Russians, Putin, have all sorts of nefarious designs on the world, and feel free to tell us. But undertake the same task with respect to the United States, and compare the baggage and its wretchedness; and consider that that of the US is ours to cure.
(DIR) Post #Acixl6u6Y5zHAZF0Fc by daniel_wengelin@mastodon.nu
2023-12-11T19:35:10Z
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@ecsd @randahl had ruzzia honored Budapest'94, Europe would not be at war.
(DIR) Post #Acixl7op9DME0TmIeu by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T05:17:22Z
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@daniel_wengelin @randahl Had the West honored its promises re NATO, nothing bad would have happened.Occam's razor. On the one hand, all countries are out for themselves. On the other, everyone knows that, so you do deals and watch closely the people you've dealt with.There is an avalanche of books describing how America has become a terrible force for evil in the world -- and one reason Americans don't want to know is that once they do, they're on the hook to fix things, and nobody knows how to do that (beyond which, nobody is allowed to try.)America is never content to have Done a Deal. Their concern is to CONTROL THE GAME and DOMINATE ALL OTHER PLAYERS, and then make the public pay to resurface the entire US as another Aircraft Carrier. It has nothing to do with commerce or being neighborly. It's about power, money, and domination. It's about impunity from punishment for behaving like an authoritarian thug. It's about endless wars, and now several wars at once permanently. The US is being re-engineered as Orwell's 1984 and its people have been told they have no choice.We have peace for the simple price of insisting upon it. "Oh Russia China Iran" yada yada blah blah. 1), it's up to the people who live in the respective places to fix them, so we only have to worry about America, 2) nobody's really a threat at the moment; we have time to take a fresh breath and assess things clearly. The US is obliged to abandon dreams of world dominion, and the US owes its people to discard rule by the rich and introduce genuine citizen Democracy for a change.The people who run around screaming "danger danger! we have to be militarily ready" are IDIOTS, and the way to PROVE that is to conduct life while IGNORING their threats of doom. Actually, things are fine -- African countries finally throwing off the rest of colonial chains, the world can be at peace if the UN is used correctly for that purpose.America can look forward to throwing off the burnt outer husk of an apple pie having been singed under a bad baker. That's right, we get RID OF THE NEOCONS ONCE AND FOR ALL, and all their ChristoFascist bullcrap. We give people their human rights back.
(DIR) Post #Acixl8ew1T2cc69usq by daniel_wengelin@mastodon.nu
2023-12-12T05:48:06Z
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@ecsd @randahl Even Gorbachev himself denounced the bs that there were any promises re NATO future members. And who the hell can justify mass killings with neighbours wanting to cooperate ? That's utterly disgusting.
(DIR) Post #AciyToQW5rOStWiVyy by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-11T19:24:36Z
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@ecsd for more than 21 months, Russians have constantly been talking about attacking more countries in Europe on their state tv channels, as well as on their radio shows. Putin has even written speeches about his right to do so.The fact that you do not follow these sources close enough to know this, does not make the rest of us uninformed.
(DIR) Post #AciyTpC1FFOJGqwS1Y by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T04:46:18Z
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@randahl I don't pay attention to loudmouths on Russian talk shows any more than I pay attention to loudmouths on American MSM. What Russia intends would come out of the mouths of Putin, Lavrov, Zakharova, Medvedev. Have they made such "threats or promises", I feel safe to say "No, or it would have made news for more than one cycle." Even RT should know better than such foolish bluster. So I'll estimate that your "informed sources" are still reading from the establishment playbook.It's TRIVIAL to identify that material, because what does it always say?Russia is a LOOMING threat.China is a LOOMING threat.Iran is a LOOMING threat.Russia intends to attack.China intends to attack.Iran intends to attack.We need to spend MORE on the military.We need to spend MORE on the military.We need to spend MORE on the military.The fact that I discount your sources a priori: Can you find any sources making the claims that you defend, that e.g. John Mearsheimer or Scott Ritter agree with? At most Mearsheimer is still worried about China, but nobody (who's reported rationally) has suggested that Russia or China intend any particular thing. It's just nonsense.I don't care who /asserts/ things to be true. I care if they can show cause why to believe those things, and the "Russia is evil / China is evil" people are just programmed CIA footsoldiers.And Putin has not been writing speeches about his "right to invade countries of eastern and western Europe." Once again, someone LIED TO YOU and you're repeating those lies because it's easier to do that, than read what Putin actually said. I challenged someone else to cough up proof; they cited a Putin speech; I read it; where's the proof, I asked? => No answer. Then I guess you were wrong, I said. => No answer.He said no such thing as you suggest. Prove that he did.
(DIR) Post #AciyTppMswrnEtLsMC by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-12T05:43:31Z
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@ecsd June 9 2022At VDNKh, Putin talks about Alexander the Great having a right to "return" regions to mother Russia no matter which country the region is part of, and then he concludes:"Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well."Putin claims it is his destiny to conquer whichever country for which he can conjure up a historic relationship with Russia.By his logic, Denmark would have a right to retake Kievan Rus including Moscow. But of course, he ignores that part.
(DIR) Post #AcjL9VwVPAlkimyBDE by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T10:21:22.251925Z
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@ecsd I don’t need on your lame screenshot of random clickbaits as a source, as I have already researched the topic quite extensively based on actual historic sources, rather than popular literature. The best overall analysis of the subject is the monograph “Not One Inch: America, Russia, and the Making of Post-Cold War Stalemate” by M. E. Sarotte published in 2021, which also includes previously classified meeting protocols by US presidents.In short: no, there were no such promises made by “the West”, ever. What #Russia presents as the “promises” are random, out-of-context statements by several Western diplomats, made during private negotiations with their Soviet counterparts. These statements were made in a very narrow context, that Russia never questioned and only started generalising them for propaganda purposes since around 2008. In 1993 Yeltsin publicly stated that Polish membership in #NATO isn’t a problem for Russia.And if you’re not from Russia, I don’t think I need to explain that countries in EU are driven by their constitutions and international treaties, not by some obscure statements made in private talks. If Poles or Ukrainians wanted to join NATO, it is their decision, not Yeltsin or Putin who are not elected leaders of #Poland or #Ukraine. Russia has no say in EU, NATO or Poland’s foreign policy in the same way as these bodies don’t have a say in Russia’s foreign policy, unless these are regulated by mutual treaties. No such treaty ever existed that prevented Eastern European countries to join NATO.If you are from Russia, then the problem is your country is not driven by constitution in the first place, but by such obscure “deals” agreed between “respected” people in the absence of public debate. This culture of extrajudicial decisions made by a narrow circle of privileged leaders based on their personal bias and prejudice is precisely what made Russia start the largest war in Europe in February 2022, in a largely suicidal manner. It was this culture, not NATO, that started the war. If Russia’s constitution and Duma were actually working rather than being Putins’ puppets, there would be never a war, neither the one from 2014, nor that from 2022. The idea that Poland or Ukraine in NATO could invade Russia was delusional from the start, and that was obvious for everyone especially in Russia, where the cult of their invincible army was always cultivated. The only reason why Russia under Putin later started opposing Ukraine’s membership in NATO was that it created a significant obstacle in Russia’s offensive plants to take over and incorporate Ukraine in the same way it did with Belarus. The whole concept of “strategic safety of Russia” is simply a projection of Putin’s megalomaniac vision of himself as a new tsar who “gathers ancient Russian lands”, not giving a shit what the people living there are thinking.@daniel_wengelin @randahl
(DIR) Post #AcjLX60HUuU5Dryq4e by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T06:52:20Z
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@kravietz @daniel_wengelin @randahl Here's your list of "no such things" (image.) [Even with the hurried rewrites of sources, plenty of places remember the truth.] You can't find "plenty" with both hands.I don't know what specific animus PL carries against RU. There's no point expecting reason re RU from a UA poster, but apparently people from PL, LT and FI also have a "our hate for Russia overpowers our ability to think rationally." I'm sure each for their own reasons. Good even, but "unable to reason" means "no point to listen, either."Since you argued that a known fact was false, it's not worth worrying what else you have to say, certainly without citations in hand.
(DIR) Post #AcjLX6lmeITvbCCm7E by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T10:25:44.720072Z
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@ecsd I don’t know what specific animus PL carries against RU.This one is easy:being invaded by Russia and USSR, with thousands of Poles jailed, executed or sent to Siberia to perish therebeing bullied and threatened with “we can repeat” (meaning the invasion from 1939) each time you rename a street or remove an ancient Soviet memorialbeing continuously denied a subjectivity not only a sovereign country, but also as a nationThe same reasons apply to all Eastern European countries who neighbor with Russia or were occupied by Russia in the past.@daniel_wengelin @randahl
(DIR) Post #AcjMrg39HuzalQhQNU by MatthewChat@mstdn.social
2023-12-11T17:08:19Z
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@randahl one of the Russian diplomats let it slip that Moldova is next to be conquered.
(DIR) Post #AcjMrgzHnlUrfjtqzo by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-12T04:38:44Z
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@MatthewChat I believe you are talking about Lavrov.https://tass.com/politics/1714305There could be a thousand reasons he is saying that. Personally, I do not think Russia has anywhere near the military capacity to open an additional front.@helgenug
(DIR) Post #AcjMrhmCrsd27SmvFQ by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T10:40:40.793006Z
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@randahl Front, as in full-scale, no, but they could very easily start a hybrid war like in Donbass in 2014.@MatthewChat @helgenug
(DIR) Post #AcjNd8Z75Me6oWHUeW by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T10:49:14.711888Z
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@ecsd As a reminder:Ministry of Internal Affairs [of Russia] called US announcements about Russian army amassed at the Ukraine’s border “a campaign of fakes” (3 November 2021, lenta.ru)Kremlin dismissed data of risk of armed invasion into Ukraine as “empty threats” (12 November 2021, rbc.ru)Putin: “Look, they’ve been talking about possible entry of Russian troops into Ukraine since the beginning of the year – as we conducted “Zapad-2021” exercises – but that never happened” (30 November 2021, kremlin.ru)Remember history: Peskov of possibility of the war. Russia never invaded anyone first (26 December 2021, vesti.ru)Lavrov: You claim we are planning to invade Ukraine, even though we explained many times that it’s not true. (21 January 2022, youtube.com)And then, on 24 February 2022 they of course invaded, as everyone has been warning. That’s pretty much all you need to know about relying on Putin’s words for anything.But I love this one most, especially as it was two weeks before the invasion that claimed one of the reasons that “foreign troops could appear in Ukraine”:Putin: Movement of our own troops on our own, I want to reiterate, our own territory, is being presented as a threat of Russian invasion – in this case, into Ukraine. Allegedly this also threatens the Baltics and other countries who are our neighbours. On what basis – it’s unclear. (8 February 2022, kremlin.ru)@randahl
(DIR) Post #AcjOgSHQLKw2mT9YMS by Metropolitaner@ieji.de
2023-12-12T10:58:59Z
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@kravietz @ecsd @daniel_wengelin @randahl Hört, hört!
(DIR) Post #AcjXOY94hF3HLYmiMy by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T07:17:11Z
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@randahl If you are citing the same thing I read [and it seems so], he did not say what you are quoting him as saying. I still hear someone else's words in your mouth. Try actually reading the document directly, closely, and make the case for your same claims using Your citations directly from Putin's speech. If he said what you said he said, you can show us where he said it. [You do also have to show that what he said could Only have meant what you claimed. If I can show how someone without a grudge going in can walk out without agreeing with your assertions, you have failed.]Esp I enjoy the embroidery: "he claimed ... his destiny .. any country he can conjure RU having a relation with" and we know darned well he never said that. He has no need to answer your negative interpretations of him nor need he account for words put into his mouth by others.
(DIR) Post #AcjXOYypaoS5w5032e by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-12T07:56:58Z
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@ecsd I quoted Putin for saying"Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well."You claim, he did not say that.Here is the transcript of his words from VDNKh.
(DIR) Post #AcjXOZkKkCRwJPDz5E by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T08:17:25Z
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@randahl I did not say he did not say that, I said he did not mean what you suggest he meant, and your example shows that I am right."Clearly, it fell to our lot to return and reinforce as well." What is he referring to? Land annexed by Sweden? Obviously not. He's referring to PARTS of Ukraine, and I know that based on things he said in this speech and elsewhere.Did we see him assert any intention to "go out and conquer" in Europe? No, but you said he said he had THAT RIGHT, and I don't see him asserting that right anywhere, other than settling affairs within Ukraine.I read more slowly than others (44th%ile) but my retention (98th%ile) and my comprehension (99th%ile) are 'second to none'. Putin's speech was rather mild and unremarkable. To fault Putin for what he said in that speech tells me the reader has literacy issues.Also, I read the DAMNED THING ITSELF, not someone's synopsis of it.If you want to fault Putin for something, slam him for reactionary attitudes towards LGBTQ++ and "Western Perversion". There, he's as much a twit as any Republican.
(DIR) Post #AcjXOaRw85KOUdco2y by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-12T08:46:13Z
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@ecsd so just to be clear: Your point of view is, all Putin ever wanted was to take Crimea, Kherson. Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk, and he has never had any intention to annex any other part of any country in Europe, and most likely never will?
(DIR) Post #AcjXObGH6vat0lB0Vc by ecsd@commons.whatiwanttoknow.org
2023-12-12T10:56:26Z
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@randahl Putin never intended to take anything. Then 2014 and Kyiv shelled Crimea and Crimea said "fuck this, we want to join Russia" -- that was the popular vote by like 90-something %, so Russia gets Crimea at Crimea's request.Minsk 2 and had UA honored that, no more territory would have been taken. But the shelling of the east continued, and the Nazis in UA were getting more and more shrill. Any leader in Putin's position would have to decide when their red line had been crossed, requiring action. Russia miscalculated that a minimal force could be used; that has been corrected. [With a NATO-killing vengeance.]Zelensky has been intransigent as have been Biden/Blinken/Johnson/VonDerLeyen/Stoltenberg. Zelensky learned early on not to confront the UA nazis. Negotiate peace? Out of the question. To the point where he can't abandon the programming even when his puppetmasters want him to.I would bet a 1 in 4 (and growing) chance Z will be assassinated by someone in the army claiming to operate in the name of saving the nation. If that happens, I'd bet 5:1 the CIA wrote the script.I'll offer 1 in 8 (and shrinking) odds Z survives and makes it outta there, like to Miami, Caymans, etc.==Now that the West has thoroughly discredited itself and reneged on every promise it made and bombed Nordstream, Putin has the luxury of doing whatever he wants in Ukraine -- the Russians will have earned it. I don't recall all the oblasts involved, but I can see Russia taking to "the river", Dnieper, and Odessa; and the four easternmost oblasts. But those are all Russian-majority areas, which UA had said it just wished to erase of all civilians; and they VOTED, to leave. Russia does NOT WANT the western portion, with a shitload of civilians that hate Russia's guts. Why bother? [See former voting map.]Apart from wrestling with NATO, no, Putin does not "want to conquer" more of Europe. The worst "territorial aggression" is CN in the South China Sea, encroaching on islands that PH claims. But I'm no longer reflexively opposed to CN, because I've read how PH has been a bad actor. Also, one has to take special care, to get news that does not have the US's fingers on it.The only "enemies" that "America" has are those it creates by so naming them. AmericANS have no enemies, except that they insist on keeping rich genocidal maniacs in power. If AmericANS had an AmericAN leader, like JFK would have been, we'd be looking forward to peace, M4A and bullet trains, and the military would become a museum.
(DIR) Post #AcjXOcBLgjFPrlsaTA by randahl@mastodon.social
2023-12-12T12:35:28Z
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@ecsd So you think, that when Putin’s Russia holds a vote in an occupied territory, and it shows 90 percent wants to join Russia, that is an objective measurement of how people feel?
(DIR) Post #AcjYV30OyKbikWOFyy by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T12:49:27.689213Z
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@ecsd Putin never intended to take anythingYou’re an anonymous Russian lowlife troll, you have no clue what Putin intended and what he did not. Clearly, since the very beginning Putin wanted to control Ukraine as if it was part of Russia, and this intention is confirmed by his actions from early 2000’s.was the popular vote by like 90-something %Crimea and Donbas referendums were done in the same way as elections in Russia after 2012: the numbers were simply made up. There was also the infamous vote in Crimean Parliament in 2014 and you could actually see on video how it happened: GRU rounded up the members of the parliament and told them to vote. This was also confirmed by people participating in these events, such as Girkin.But those are all Russian-majority areasIronically, these areas are now the most destroyed by Putin, with towns such as Mariupol heavily ruined and depopulated, Severodonetsk, Popasna or Bakhmut literally obliterated. And Russian soldiers on the ground themselves say that the only thing their invasion achieved was for the local population to start hating Russia wholeheartedly, even if they were somewhat pro-Russian before. UA had said it just wished to erase of all civiliansThat’s what Russia does right now on the occupied territories, not what Ukraine ever wished or did.@randahl
(DIR) Post #AcjdK9ljz6ziJN9uK0 by wyntrson@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-12-12T13:22:02Z
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@kravietz @ecsd @daniel_wengelin @randahl Oh please! Stop with the constitution nonsense already. Go out and try to hand out the copy of constitution, see if anyone takes it. In business we say, documents are there to be ignored. And as the private sector is controlling the entire US government including the president, constitution is just a document.
(DIR) Post #AcjdKAlQHmKnOg1ASu by daniel_wengelin@mastodon.nu
2023-12-12T13:32:50Z
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@wyntrson @kravietz @ecsd @randahl It's not the constitution on a piece of paper but its embodiment of expectations of transparency and accountability in decision making. 🤷
(DIR) Post #AcjdUkwQdKvCUmDDhA by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-12T13:47:02.711223Z
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@wyntrson As you’re clearly in Russia, I can understand your frustration with the Constitution of Russian Federation being less useful than toilet paper :)@ecsd @daniel_wengelin @randahl