Post AcVTBfp6pDlSlXN2Su by peterbrown@mastodon.scot
(DIR) More posts by peterbrown@mastodon.scot
(DIR) Post #AcVHyiEpR8Cazk1ARM by MJCarty@mastodon.social
2023-12-05T06:54:44Z
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Sellafield: ‘bottomless pit of hell, money and despair’ at Europe’s most toxic nuclear sitehttps://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/04/sellafield-money-europe-toxic-nuclear-site-cumbria-safety
(DIR) Post #AcVHyjJTRLVoKRCOJs by Peternimmo@mastodon.scot
2023-12-05T15:29:08Z
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@MJCarty @peterbrown they are doing really important and necessary work at Sellafield in dealing with the UK's nuclear past. But it's also a reminder that we shouldn't countenance a nuclear future
(DIR) Post #AcVHyk7SRVUipSaJEG by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T15:39:56.670493Z
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@Peternimmo No? The dilemma is about 10x reduction of CO2 intensity of electricity generation - literally, France now is 64 gCO2eq/kWh, running mostly on #nuclear, Germany is 552 gCO2eq/kWh, running mostly on coal and gas as #renewables run at 30% (wind) and stunning 2.5% capacity (PV)https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DEhttps://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/FR@MJCarty @peterbrown
(DIR) Post #AcVSiYKXbZoV82Bdiq by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T16:11:32Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty And PVs are at 0% capacity in the middle of the night. Shocked?Now calculate the cost of 69GW of installed nuclear power and a timeline of bringing it online.
(DIR) Post #AcVSickDC4iyooECI4 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T17:40:16.517010Z
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@t_tsonevIf you've invested in PV companies, it makes perfect sense — you're after short term profits, costs are bad.I'm after decarbonization however, and Germany having 120 GW in wind and solar (installed capacity!) but actually running on coal and gas simply doesn't work for me.@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVT6lDLM2vM2NMaOW by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T17:44:41.083059Z
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@t_tsonevFor electricity you don't count price for W (power) but for Wh (amount of electricity). Happy to help, here's the prices:@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVTBfp6pDlSlXN2Su by peterbrown@mastodon.scot
2023-12-05T16:30:37Z
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@t_tsonev @kravietz @Peternimmo @MJCarty happily the absence of solar in the middle of the night, is not really an issue, because that’s when demand is lowest anyway.
(DIR) Post #AcVTBgc1tKtdDGG6iW by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T17:45:33.263985Z
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@peterbrownIt's lowest when the whole country runs on gas heating. I thought we're trying to decarbonize here?@t_tsonev @Peternimmo @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVYSnbDfPrbZmrKfA by Peternimmo@mastodon.scot
2023-12-05T16:47:50Z
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@t_tsonev @kravietz @peterbrown @MJCarty and add the costs of decommissioning and dealing with the waste
(DIR) Post #AcVYSoRKXfY0BPEwt6 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T18:44:29.534889Z
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@Peternimmo If you’re concerned about waste, then you have much more to worry in case of renewables, because both wind and solar need orders of magnitude more materials (steel, concrete, carbon fiber, rare earth metals etc) than nuclear per Wh of electricity. And rare earth metals, for example, are co-mined with uranium.@t_tsonev @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVYhNLtXGkKW2drHc by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T17:52:24Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCartyIt’s not about financial profit, but how quickly the investment will turn into CO2 reduction.Overbuilding Wind & Solar by a factor of 3x is not unreasonable. The fact that we can do it incrementally, and with private investments is simply amazing.The state should invest in distribution and incentives. This is where central policy and planning works best.
(DIR) Post #AcVYhO6KkbtQq4MwfQ by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T18:47:20.655448Z
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@t_tsonev how quickly the investment will turn into CO2 reductionYou can see that very well in case of Germany. Make note of the CO2 intensity number on the ElectricityMaps I’ve linked. It’s 10x larger than in case of France. It’s exactly the opposite of “quick CO2 reduction”, isn’t it?How fast it could be done? Here’s an example:@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVaLsShODDcXRhWgS by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T19:02:25Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty10 years in case of nuclear according to your graph? And it omits the last 12 years, how convenient. Let’s add them to the picture.https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-per-unit-energy?tab=chart&time=1980..latest&country=DEU~FRA
(DIR) Post #AcVaLtQFomrDW9Z5Vo by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T19:05:52.686662Z
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@t_tsonev You added, and so what? Where’s your decarbonization, they’re decreasing in parallel, except overall France’s emissions is still 2x lower than Germany’s. In spite of the fact the latter built like 200% excess installed power in renewables, and France merely 20%. In case of electricity generation, the difference is almost always 5x less in France, reaching 10x in winter months.@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVai9tjFAPEzBy72u by peterbrown@mastodon.scot
2023-12-05T19:05:37Z
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@kravietz @t_tsonev @Peternimmo @MJCarty I think you are being deliberately simplistic. As you know perfectly well, it’s not the volume of nuclear waste which is the issue, but the radioactivity.
(DIR) Post #AcVaiAnjsvD1muAqLg by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T19:09:52.964282Z
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@peterbrown Waste from rare earth mining used in manufacturing of PV and wind turbines is also radioactive, and you produce 300x more of these for renewables per Wh of electricity.The high-level radioactive waste is not a problem specifically because of its tiny value, counted in tons per year. And then it’s 96% recycled back into fuel, and only remaining 4% needs to be vitrified and stored underground. And the fun fact about radioactive decay is that the more active isotope, the faster it decays, and the faster it becomes low active. And the other way around - the longer isotope’s half-life, the lower its activity.As result, high-level waste in just 100 years goes down to only 7% of its original activity, and then slowly decays to background level.@t_tsonev @Peternimmo @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVb3yBXTJzH1whQVk by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T19:13:49.828572Z
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@peterbrown Just to add that, everyone (well, not in England) generally agrees about the need for conserving energy by sing modern insulation. Guess what, manufacturing modern insulation, photovoltaics or EV produces huge amounts of toxic chemical waste, which also needs to be managed safely.Except, while nuclear waste loses activity very fast, chemical waste by definition loses its toxicity… never.Here’s an interesting case study from Germany: they already have not one but two deep geological repositories storing thousands of tons of cyanide, arsenic, mercury waste, forever toxic:https://www.kpluss.com/en-us/our-business-products/waste-management/underground-disposal/But instead they freak out about a few hundreds of tons of mostly medical waste in Asche mine, because it’s radioactive!@t_tsonev @Peternimmo @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVbnfn4CAKDIj2tpA by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T19:19:16Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty Germany is 15% down despite divesting from nuclear. At the same time France’s EDF is in €60bn debt, so those emissions cuts are not free and quite likely, unsustainable.
(DIR) Post #AcVbniGD0mpAxghCWe by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T19:22:06.690337Z
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@t_tsonev I’m sure there’s an English proverb to properly comment on celebration of “15% down” when Germany’s emissions routinely hit 500-600 gCO2eq/kWh because its largest single source of electricity in most years is coal.so those emissions cuts are not freeAnd Germany’s 300 billion EUR spent on Energiewende is free :)@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVg5tffj1zDNeX3uC by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T19:14:31Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty There are no rare earths in PVs. Wind turbines use them if it makes economic sense. Stop spreading FUD.
(DIR) Post #AcVg5ub6HVvKFlOvQ0 by Peternimmo@mastodon.scot
2023-12-05T19:49:21Z
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@t_tsonev @kravietz @peterbrown @MJCarty "Sellafield is so expensive to maintain that it is considered a fiscal risk by budgetary officials. The latest estimate for cleaning up the Britain’s nuclear sites is £263bn, of which Sellafield is by far the biggest proportion. However, adjustments to its treatments in accounts can move the dial by more than £100bn, more than the UK’s entire annual deficit". As a UK taxpayer, I don't think I've had value for money from our nuclear programmes
(DIR) Post #AcVg5vPnF2TOmz7PQu by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T20:10:11.497517Z
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@Peternimmo Sellafield an research site operating since 1950’s, where several different types of reactors were built, including the first reactor to power the grid in the world (on par with USSR), and also nuclear weapons.It’s not really in any way comparable to any modern pressurised-water reactor, which are designed and built with all the knowledge accumulated since. So firstly, it can’t be compared to a regular power plant in terms of complexity of cleanup, but also the value of Sellafield goes well beyond the electricity it produced as it was a research site.@t_tsonev @peterbrown @MJCarty
(DIR) Post #AcVgBErUMn74Y9bfmK by t_tsonev@c.im
2023-12-05T19:40:17Z
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@kravietz @Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty You have a good point here, I haven’t realized how much money Germany is pumping into renewables. They would’ve been in a better position with a more healthy mix of production with nuclear to cover the gaps in renewables.But that’s 10-15 years ago. Today, with falling installation costs for renewables and increasing ones for nuclear it’s not such a clear choice.
(DIR) Post #AcVgBFhxDj53As9ZYW by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-12-05T20:10:40.470816Z
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@t_tsonev And that’s why they run on coal and gas 😉@Peternimmo @peterbrown @MJCarty