Post AcAPdBnlYhLbcxRtsu by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
(DIR) More posts by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
(DIR) Post #AcAMppGqL8jrePNqN6 by jon@gruene.social
2023-11-25T10:57:48Z
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Sorry, but talk of an extra hasty EU accession of Ukraine worries me.The EU and NATO have to do everything possible to help Ukraine win this war. That’s central.But the EU is not only a security union. There’s a mass of everyday political problems in Ukraine that have to be solved before it could join the EU.
(DIR) Post #AcAMpq1dXAAXzXHDJA by ErikJonker@mastodon.social
2023-11-25T11:20:52Z
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@jon It's not hasty , it's the start of a process, countries like Roemenia also had their problems. The start of the process can give a decisive boost to solve those problems
(DIR) Post #AcANXZ8RgzRcLiJQno by vosje62@mastodon.nl
2023-11-25T11:24:04Z
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@jon joining the EU, is, a complicated process. Not only for the EU and Ukraine, but also for the neighbouring countries (and the people that live there).Because the process is so long, I sure they have looked into it to make it as short as possible.
(DIR) Post #AcANXa9BvhdRUJfXbU by jon@gruene.social
2023-11-25T11:26:53Z
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@vosje62 No they’ve not. And that’s what annoys me. Ukraine is being promised a fast process, because it’s politically opportune in Western Europe to promise it a fast process. It’s not thought through at all (I worked a bit on Romania accession help last decade)
(DIR) Post #AcANXauh55dHrdtTe4 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-11-25T13:31:48.914186Z
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@jon It’s a process that requires mutual assurance. On one hand Ukraine must comply with all defined requirements and I haven’t seen any EU politicians declaring otherwise. On the contrary, in Ukraine it’s a big topic and there’s a visible mobilisation to ensure all necessary reforms are performed.On the other side, Ukraine must receive a clear signal that if it satisfies all requirements it will be accepted rather than face an endless feature creep (“okay, but now we would also like to do X, Y and Z”).It was the same thing with Eastern European countries joining EU in 2004, which was a process that started in 1994, so it took almost exactly 10 years. Assurances on both sides are necessary also because there are, how to put that… significant actors trying to ensure that Ukraine does not eventually join EU.@vosje62
(DIR) Post #AcAPdBnlYhLbcxRtsu by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-11-25T13:56:46.602380Z
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@jon Having said that, it certainly doesn’t help when EU countries can’t keep up to their own rules. How many EU Member States do not even comply to Treaty budgetary policy (60% of gross government debt and 3% deficit)? The answer can be found in the following EU chart and it doesn’t look very reassuring, granted that even France and Germany don’t seem to care.@vosje62
(DIR) Post #AcAWybbfVl0XQ6wwAS by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-11-25T15:19:03.850347Z
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@Leszek_Karlik I have no problem with that, except for the fact that these numbers are written down in the Treaty - and not respected :) This results in an obvious inflation of law, because if some (the largest…) Member Stated don’t have to keep up to the Treaty, then why anyone has to?https://www.ecb.europa.eu/mopo/eaec/fiscal/html/index.en.html@jon @vosje62
(DIR) Post #AcAX00mJPQDPmJbAKu by Veza85UE@eupolicy.social
2023-11-25T14:09:45Z
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@kravietz @jon @vosje62 Because they're stupid rules and need to be reformed. I agree with Jon's post, though I doubt anybody envisions anything extra hasty ever happening in the EU, but would add to this: "There’s a mass of everyday political problems in Ukraine that have to be solved before it could join the EU." And there's a mass of everyday political problems in the EU that need to be solved before anybody can join the EU and this is our only choice to reform in the foreseeable future.