Post Ac3DoDzJDCGI2Kcl84 by delfuego@me.dm
(DIR) More posts by delfuego@me.dm
(DIR) Post #Ac0EsSRavHcUVgYbc8 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T16:08:25Z
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Can you imagine the conversations going on right now in all the startup companies that built their product on top of ChatGPT?I don't mean to mock or belittle any of them -- some of those services are good, some are just a layer of html/css/javascript dirt on top of OpenAIBut it really shows the risks of building a company entirely on top of someone else's product
(DIR) Post #Ac0GeXBch58j4YZilc by mogul@mastodon.cloud
2023-11-20T16:28:18Z
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@clive Right next to your post in my feed...https://mas.to/@carnage4life/111443767346545240
(DIR) Post #Ac0IJyO6Z4cHGMjk4O by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T16:47:00Z
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@mogul yep yep
(DIR) Post #Ac0IhnZAS04aeOGvs8 by benbradley@mastodon.online
2023-11-20T16:50:50Z
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@clive This reminds me of how much of big commerce websites and back ends run on AWS.
(DIR) Post #Ac0JOzReA5HHwZLjwu by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T16:59:07Z
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@benbradley yep yepDropbox, for its first few years, ran on AWS ... then finally decided it was too much exposure to rely on the cloud farms of what was, in essence, a competitorSo Dropbox built its own cloud, and moved hundreds of petabytes of data from AWS to their new farm ... by truck!(A few of which got in accidents along the way, and one of which I believe tipped overThey had redundant trucks lol)https://www.wired.com/2016/03/epic-story-dropboxs-exodus-amazon-cloud-empire/
(DIR) Post #Ac0KnBfwRM1WmR8cAC by stanley@heretic.social
2023-11-20T17:10:02Z
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@clive If only they had talked to someone who had built a company entirely on top of Facebook, Twitter, Reddit… and that’s just in the last couple years.
(DIR) Post #Ac0LGGMo4p1pjD3I9o by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T17:19:54Z
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@stanley TotallyRemember all those Facebook-game companies?
(DIR) Post #Ac0LZ4Jx5VYts0gTaa by stanley@heretic.social
2023-11-20T17:18:46Z
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@clive Hmm… That makes AI startups the new “Mafia Wars”? Maybe it’s a good thing they were overly dependent on OpenAI. 😝
(DIR) Post #Ac0LfH0mofzWy3g6fQ by debs@saturation.social
2023-11-20T17:23:33Z
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@clive that’s an insane story!
(DIR) Post #Ac0LwvHyJtm2oA8HL6 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T17:26:43Z
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@debs Truly, eh?Some old-school, moving-around-atoms-and-molecules engineering there
(DIR) Post #Ac0Q4zYuiQZEC89yt6 by ArtHarg@mastodon.nl
2023-11-20T18:13:45Z
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@clive @debs Sneakernet 2.0.
(DIR) Post #Ac0RQ64bnn9GQMc2ZE by jason@logoff.website
2023-11-20T18:28:54Z
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@clive well it’s open, right?
(DIR) Post #Ac0ZNQ3PrBrP9rHy6q by adaddinsane@mastodonapp.uk
2023-11-20T18:46:03Z
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@jason @cliveIt isn't.
(DIR) Post #Ac0ZNR83rPAcUYTBzM by jason@logoff.website
2023-11-20T18:47:36Z
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@adaddinsane sorry, I was jokingI think building a company around an open-source product is sometimes fine, as an exception to the rule here.And OpenAI says it in the name. But of course they aren’t, it’s total bullshit.
(DIR) Post #Ac0ZNRyWiL8b7H15lY by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T19:58:08Z
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@jason @adaddinsane Yeah, calling it OpenAI was really a hilariously brazen example of branding
(DIR) Post #Ac0oBKBzK7dwoczOYi by artemesia@techhub.social
2023-11-20T22:43:15Z
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@clive @jason @adaddinsane It usually is. Remember openVMS?
(DIR) Post #Ac0oC09dJGiOxUD6ie by valthonis@dice.camp
2023-11-20T22:42:57Z
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@clive @anildash What is wild to me is that we've seen centralized platforms like Twitter and Reddit crush the cottage industries of third-party clients this year, and folks *still* figured that OpenAI was a worthy basket for all their eggs…
(DIR) Post #Ac0oNce0Xsp7WBxX1c by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T22:46:14Z
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@artemesia @jason @adaddinsane o yes
(DIR) Post #Ac0oYlPMIogZsrQ5cu by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T22:48:16Z
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@valthonis @anildash As folks have pointed out to me, the risks of developing an AI product on top of OpenAI were a bit less hazardous than building a product on top of Twitter/Facebook etc ...... because there's no particular network lock-in; one *could* retool one's service to use a rival LLM chatbot(Indeed, a smart company would have such code written, tested, and continually updated juuuuusst in case)
(DIR) Post #Ac0owuhtNg0BfqbWqm by mprazoff@mastodon.cloud
2023-11-20T22:52:36Z
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@clive Wondering if it’s all down to the OpenAI board using Chat GPT to write the “you’re fired” memo and Satya Nadella using the newer GPT Turbo for the “you’re hired” letter? Living in crazy times!
(DIR) Post #Ac0p92MGl9WysYGsYC by fds@mastodon.social
2023-11-20T22:54:06Z
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@clive surely a bunch of ex Apple employees would know not to leave your product that dependent on a third party.
(DIR) Post #Ac0qJhfA90R5pil4wy by cloudguy@mastodon.terabyte-computing.com
2023-11-20T23:07:00Z
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@clive I was thinking exactly this driving homeYou may have seen I spent a year writing an AI speech tool I've kept private because it's a pet project.It works fine just I don't want the hassle of releasing itBecause thisThis will happenBeen there before with Smoothwall and MOnoWall that begat pfSense and Endian etc
(DIR) Post #Ac0s2P4kCMPrAebPiS by aburka@hachyderm.io
2023-11-20T23:26:50Z
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@clive I mean to mock or belittle them. It was a bad choice ethically *and* strategically to build on OpenAI and that wasn't hard to see.
(DIR) Post #Ac0tpSMsqSs9Wh2cMq by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T23:45:39Z
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@cloudguy Aha, yeah!
(DIR) Post #Ac0u3faUUaEQa1BQOG by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T23:46:06Z
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@fds truly
(DIR) Post #Ac0u9OkM1G3Y5PWoYC by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T23:46:20Z
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@mprazoff heh heh yes indeed
(DIR) Post #Ac0uHAkhvwjd05Ou1I by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-20T23:49:53Z
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@Kye I hadn't heard of them -- thank you for the pointer! Checking out now ...
(DIR) Post #Ac0uZCzaLOvp9yxZQW by phette23@digipres.club
2023-11-20T23:54:34Z
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@clive I don't think one executive is a cause for concern. It's not going to suddenly make ChatGPT disappear. Why would it? Google, Microsoft, Apple, all have had high profile exec turnover, maybe not quite as dramatic, but the companies didn't suddenly crumble because some suit abstracted a dozen layers away from their core products left.
(DIR) Post #Ac0vBjFmqUncDkuEDY by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T00:01:24Z
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@phette23 Agreed -- the executives leaving wouldn't be a problemBuuuuttttt if Microsoft decides, as it increasingly seems likely given that they just hired Altman, to stop pouring money into OpenAI (as I understand, a significant chunk of their investment was in processing time on the Azure cloud) ...... then OpenAI could rather quickly find itself without enough money to keep operating ChatGPT
(DIR) Post #Ac0vsc8HCJisaSqHAm by tuxicoman@social.jesuislibre.net
2023-11-21T00:11:07Z
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@clive what is the problem? Current service & product didn't change
(DIR) Post #Ac0w9xnZteVShrQwIS by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T00:13:25Z
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@tuxicoman https://saturation.social/@clive/111445598818187884
(DIR) Post #Ac0xTpPestRYRbHVjs by tuxicoman@social.jesuislibre.net
2023-11-21T00:29:02Z
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@clive thanks for sharing your concern
(DIR) Post #Ac0z0Hkj9XpTYkB1ay by djc@fosstodon.org
2023-11-21T00:45:13Z
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@clive @harris I've seen one reaction from a company that (I assume) built on GPT:"Fortunately swapping out commercial LLM API’s is the easiest vendor change in all of software"
(DIR) Post #Ac0zC6Z2Zr16KlLXe4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T00:47:26Z
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@djc @harris Yeah, I was hoping that's the caseIt's just an API call
(DIR) Post #Ac11ch6VXt4j66o5yK by harris@social.coop
2023-11-21T01:14:35Z
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@clive @djc I haven’t looked at the competitor APIs so I’m not sure, but OpenAI does have an awful lot of API and fine-tuning sugar that automates the tasks of building common apps—I’m thinking chat completion, function calling, etc. Ironically this probably would be more difficult a few months from now since they added a bunch of additional stuff on devday.But nevertheless, yeah, it’s probably not that big of a moat. Someone’s gonna build those APIs.
(DIR) Post #Ac181Pwj4fMEqeP692 by edwiebe@mstdn.ca
2023-11-21T02:26:19Z
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@clive I’m pretty skeptical that anything built on these models is ‘good’.
(DIR) Post #Ac18nqGiVl5INyqS5Q by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T02:35:05Z
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@edwiebe There aren't many -- quite a few offer "bullshit as a service"But some, I think, are trying to do interesting experiments with summarizationsome of the code projects seem legit too
(DIR) Post #Ac18udXyD02IxP9fvc by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T02:36:18Z
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@harris @djc Agreed on all fronts there
(DIR) Post #Ac1ZDNh1yUhS66zY5A by samweingamgee@fediscience.org
2023-11-21T07:30:36Z
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@clive"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. "(Andrew S. Tanenbaum)@benbradley
(DIR) Post #Ac1zQXB0ckuk5CwjAG by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T12:24:44Z
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@samweingamgee @benbradley Heh yes
(DIR) Post #Ac22myiVD7KHjN0S24 by samweingamgee@fediscience.org
2023-11-21T13:02:24Z
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@clive I've thought about this a lot regarding the relationship of #OpenSource projects with industry as there are a lot of similarities in the power relationships there. I hope that the #OpenAI debacle leads to more #Maintainers recognizing that they have sway. I fear it is just going to lead to stronger corporate pressure to control "their" pet projects.
(DIR) Post #Ac25uJ7m29Pcuh0sUq by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T13:37:20Z
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@samweingamgee Yeah, the parallels with open source projects is big here -- good point
(DIR) Post #Ac2BfPzqnfrxbmagaW by davealvarado@hachyderm.io
2023-11-21T14:41:50Z
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@clive "I hope Microsoft buys us instead of putting us out of business" has to be the thing keeping them up at night now.
(DIR) Post #Ac2HEtYVONNvBqXIo4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-21T15:44:14Z
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@davealvarado Indeed!
(DIR) Post #Ac39GWlGVSdAbCjQzQ by baloo@sfba.social
2023-11-22T01:49:37Z
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@clive @benbradley that is not what the article reads?They moved the content via internet, the truck crashes relates to the new machines they were installing in their datacenter. Or am I reading that wrong?
(DIR) Post #Ac3AZS4CHjmvUlAtX6 by michaelcoyote@mastodon.social
2023-11-22T02:04:16Z
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@clive @benbradley @burritojustice RedundantArray ofIndependentTrucks
(DIR) Post #Ac3CvjySaOQzJUFNp2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-22T02:30:44Z
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@michaelcoyote @benbradley @burritojustice trucks = [🚚, 🚚, 🚚, 🚚, 🚚, 🚚]
(DIR) Post #Ac3D283nwm0PkjnF8C by michaelcoyote@mastodon.social
2023-11-22T02:31:53Z
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@clive @benbradley @burritojustice It could be:trucks = [[🚚, 🚚, 🚚], [🚚, 🚚, 🚚]]
(DIR) Post #Ac3DF71V79ToIhuGno by baloo@sfba.social
2023-11-22T01:52:29Z
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@clive @benbradley (to be more specific, aws has a service to move data in to aws (snowmobile), but I’m not sure they have anything to move data out, except by copying it out of storage via the internet)
(DIR) Post #Ac3DF8UFfk4WqAMkFs by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-22T02:34:13Z
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@baloo @benbradley The snowmobile service is awesome!"Machines" is ambiguous here, yesI read it as the data -- I can't imagine why they'd be focused on the movement of non-data-filled servers-with-drives, in this piece(And while AWS doesn't have any service for normie customers to move data in physical devices/SSDs/servers, I would imagine they would work with a multi-hundred-million-dollar customer moving data by the petabyte lol)
(DIR) Post #Ac3DPRTdvEGedJzmWO by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-22T02:36:06Z
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@michaelcoyote @benbradley @burritojustice now we're cooking with gas
(DIR) Post #Ac3DoDzJDCGI2Kcl84 by delfuego@me.dm
2023-11-22T02:40:34Z
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@clive @baloo @benbradley I definitely read it as the physical machines, not the data; they even mention a few paragraphs prior that they moved the data via internet bandwidth (the whole four-petabytes-took-a-full-day paragraph). In terms of why this article focused on movement of non-data-filled servers, I read it as part of their commentary on the sheer logistics of standing up all these data centers in the short window before their AWS contract expired.
(DIR) Post #Ac3EARGGXf0zZg9FEe by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-22T02:44:38Z
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@delfuego @baloo @benbradley Aha, interesting!Maybe I'm wrong about this
(DIR) Post #Ac4cHGFqSIFHWShIMy by reswob@infosec.exchange
2023-11-22T18:49:23Z
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@clive @benbradley I don't have the link, but didn't Netflix do something similar? Build its own cloud to get off Amazon?
(DIR) Post #Ac4rl1H2DV1j3nty5Y by jym@spore.social
2023-11-22T21:42:52Z
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@clive - I've gotten Cloudflare error screens from DropBox but I think that might be a different partnership.
(DIR) Post #Ac4tCReoKcC2ezfEqe by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-22T21:59:03Z
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@jym Yeah -- cloudflare is probably just running interference on their I/O