Post AbfaXmQaI4pXRX13y4 by slcrane@writing.exchange
(DIR) More posts by slcrane@writing.exchange
(DIR) Post #AbbQsBGRslgE5dWabg by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-11-08T16:55:50Z
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This interesting piece, "How less-gendered language is faring across Europe," introduced a term from German I haven't heard before: the gender star. It goes after the stem and before the suffix. For example, a male citizen is a Bürger, a female citizen a Bürgerin, and the gender-neutral form is "Bürger*innen."It's not at all a settled form yet, and there's also the "gender gap" form that uses an underscore, "Bürger_innen," and some people just write "BürgerInnen."https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/04/whats-in-a-word-how-less-gendered-language-is-faring-across-europe
(DIR) Post #AbbRgZxiKYVxATnFlQ by iuveaene@mastodon.social
2023-11-08T17:04:58Z
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@grammargirlIn Spain some people like to use @ at the end of some words because it is like an 'a' and a 'o' put together. For example "niñ@" could be "niño" or "niña". The problem is how do you read that out loud?These tricks can be a problem for screen readers.
(DIR) Post #AbbSCHuUyy6aRpPRhY by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-11-08T17:10:42Z
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@iuveaene Interesting!
(DIR) Post #AbbVcWPI0SzKnf0pU0 by ysegrim@furry.engineer
2023-11-08T17:49:02Z
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@grammargirl Btw,1) https://mastodon.social/@astefanowitsch is on Mastodon2) In my experience, the colon ":" is uses as an alternative to the asterisk "*" a lot more often than "" or "Binnen-I" (which are considered pretty Eighties ...)3) It also comes with pronounciation rules (which is what really drives the conservatives mad, because you can actually _hear it) -- it adds a glottal stop. (i.e., is "Bürgerinnen", the "r" and "i" are pronounicated together, like in "hearing", but in "Bürger*innen" there is a "gap" as if they were two different words, like in "hear english"4) There are actually some folks trying out the "Phettberg" method of having gender-neutral forms, which is basically using "-y" as suffix wherever "-in" would create the female form of the male "default" version -- Die Ärzte/Die Ärtztinnen -> Die Ärztys, etc. This is not used very widely (but it's very useful when you want to enrage Boomerys even more :) )
(DIR) Post #AbbXFAW7QU9M9qCOSO by hagedose68@social.cologne
2023-11-08T18:07:14Z
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@grammargirl The most common one these days is Bürger:innen, as far as I can tell.
(DIR) Post #AbbieJqayMGxpXyJo8 by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-11-08T20:14:59Z
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@ysegrim @astefanowitsch Thanks. Interesting!
(DIR) Post #AbbifWiMcNFg1jhItE by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-11-08T20:15:12Z
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@hagedose68 Thanks!
(DIR) Post #AbbimZBVpfdDiOgjr6 by ionica@mathstodon.xyz
2023-11-08T20:16:30Z
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@grammargirl @hagedose68 and you pronounce with a little pause, right?
(DIR) Post #AbfaXmQaI4pXRX13y4 by slcrane@writing.exchange
2023-11-10T17:03:01Z
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@grammargirl As a translator/editor who regularly deals with this, I hope we'll find a better solution for German. A key problem is that you also have to use the star in all adjectives and articles associated with those nouns, e.g. "staatlich geprüfte*r Techniker*in " ("state-certified technician") or "Anschrift des*der Absolvent*in" (the graduate's address). This makes many texts a pain to read, they can't be easily read aloud either, and it's definitely not an option for fiction. 😩
(DIR) Post #AbfbeTsVkunBtTq0IK by grammargirl@zirk.us
2023-11-10T17:15:28Z
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@slcrane It will be interesting to see how it develops.