Post AbQdzJSwwtCODeXmtM by kate@aus.social
(DIR) More posts by kate@aus.social
(DIR) Post #AbOwAPK0vWs0QPstIe by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-02T16:14:24Z
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“The Literary Style of Alt-Text”For years, I didn’t add alt-text to my online images But I’ve started doing it all the time now — being on Mastodon is what showed me how important it is!Along the way, I’ve started noticing ……. what an oddly *literary* activity it isHere’s an image I wrote alt-text for when I blogged a few weeks ago, belowMy essay on alt-texting: https://clivethompson.medium.com/the-literary-style-of-alt-text-9f1595cd8f0cA free “friend” link in case you don’t subscribe to Medium: https://clivethompson.medium.com/the-literary-style-of-alt-text-9f1595cd8f0c?sk=1d9cd685997cb08d8909da687a2d03cf
(DIR) Post #AbOyHem24j94HeZfAe by khm@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-11-02T16:38:02Z
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@clive alt text is my preferred narrative medium c.f. https://mastodon.sdf.org/@khm/111167399477708647
(DIR) Post #AbP0whGHvh1RmVQIt6 by iju@mastodon.social
2023-11-02T17:08:01Z
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@clive I didn't add them in Twitter due to the app not showing the results to people not using screenreading apps. On mastodon where I can see the results on web interface I can see how useful they are to me, so I try to contribute back.
(DIR) Post #AbP18xmqJcdqVYV292 by stefan@stefanbohacek.online
2023-11-02T17:10:13Z
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@clive Really enjoyed reading this, and thank you for the shout-out!
(DIR) Post #AbP1FQbi4h0Hd9NIxs by C3nC3@social.tchncs.de
2023-11-02T17:11:18Z
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@cliveAm using them for a few years now. But I'm not writing long texts as yours
(DIR) Post #AbP1itXzYUbJmggdJw by micron@mastodon.social
2023-11-02T17:16:41Z
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@clive I also came to enjoy writing alt-text as it can add an opt-in layer of information that's valuable to everyone. I think it's the engineers poetry and a great exercise in filtering key information out of a lot of noise, subjective as that may be.The only thing that sometimes bothers me is that it makes every image a ripe fruit for the "AI" grifters to harvest.
(DIR) Post #AbP2K4rATEWxZeNziy by ravisambamurthy@drupal.community
2023-11-02T17:23:21Z
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@clive The moving cyclist photo is usually called a 'panning shot' and is achieved by using a slower shutter speed, smaller aperture (to prevent over exposure) and moving the camera (i.e. panning) along the moving subject, so that it appears stationary when compared to the background. It's indeed a difficult capture, and is a great shot by Roman Koester who has been credited in your blog.
(DIR) Post #AbP3SiyNIqoaGNRb3Q by hefy_jefy@sfba.social
2023-11-02T17:36:06Z
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@clive. I spent a couple of moments looking for an unblurred bus stop and store window. This is better: “Despite the fact that they are moving quickly, the cyclist is unblurred.
(DIR) Post #AbP5gnjqa4zT0RUNTU by prolixious@spore.social
2023-11-02T18:01:09Z
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@clive You may like the various editions of this writing textbook, which focuses on the interplay between literary and visual culturehttps://www.librarything.com/work/533620
(DIR) Post #AbPBTTfUUQw6igTu5o by l0ve30@mastodon.world
2023-11-02T19:05:54Z
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@clive yes! I only started alt texts when I switched to Mastodon too. And I sometimes now want to go beyond just the description of what's in the image.
(DIR) Post #AbPBng0iJLpSn42Wzg by kellylepo@astrodon.social
2023-11-02T19:09:35Z
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@clive Agreed. Especially when writing alt text for something abstract — like a painting or a nebula. One of the science writers I work with who creates alt text for JWST images of space has a degree in poetry. She finds it useful.
(DIR) Post #AbPCbALMK3IN3XIL7Q by raisin@frogs.lgbt
2023-11-02T19:18:31Z
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@clive sometimes alt-text is a window into the poster's mind - why did they post this picture and how is it relevant? just like a picture is a selection of the world around you, the alt-text is a selection of what you might see, so it's inherently artistic
(DIR) Post #AbPIzRzEyafORzuboW by Cotopaxi@mstdn.social
2023-11-02T20:30:07Z
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@clive A friend who worked at National Geographic in the '90s told me they employed writers whose sole job was writing photo captions. There's an art to it.
(DIR) Post #AbPLF6uLJam7cJDSqm by Zotmeister@mastodon.online
2023-11-02T20:55:24Z
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@clive Just because we know a picture is worth a thousand words doesn't mean that coming up with those words is easy or even desirable, but it is often noble, and usually brave.
(DIR) Post #AbPMwPmH8IjuXyeiEC by Roundtrip@federate.social
2023-11-02T21:14:24Z
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@clive 🧵alt-text practice +++I also try to include a link at the end of the alt-text to the put the image in context or give the original source of any alt-text quoted text.@samplereality uses his @1994clipart bot to publish Coral Gallery 1994 clip art images, each with a short description and longer ghost story.https://botsin.space/@1994clipart/111292031715762624
(DIR) Post #AbPVEdo4Vlu2u2hKMK by iquaanyin@mastodon.social
2023-11-02T22:47:23Z
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@clive i wish the had an auto option for it
(DIR) Post #AbQdsT0F5mInlpqsHQ by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T11:58:53Z
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@iju yeah, same here – I could never really figure out how to do it on Twitter! Whereas Mastodon places at front and center, encouraging me to do it every time
(DIR) Post #AbQdzISufXZj7FWFCC by cogdog@social.fossdle.org
2023-11-02T21:28:44Z
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@clive Thanks for the friend link! Been on similar path. There's no single right way to write alt-text, but the wrong way is writing none.The object-action-context approach was helpful for mehttps://uxdesign.cc/how-to-write-an-image-description-2f30d3bf5546I liked this perspective on the poetic approachhttps://akimbo.ca/akimblog/alt-text-ambiguity-a-poetic-approach-to-image-description-by-alex-haagaard-and-liz-jackson/
(DIR) Post #AbQdzJSwwtCODeXmtM by kate@aus.social
2023-11-02T21:36:31Z
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@cogdog @clive Have you come across the beautiful image descriptions @HonDuMuc adds to Hanoi street photographs?
(DIR) Post #AbQdzKHzt622lyQYSW by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T11:59:35Z
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@HonDuMuc @kate @cogdog Haven’t seen that, no, but will check it out – thank you for the pointer!
(DIR) Post #AbQe6miCbxVQx2F0Rk by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:00:16Z
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@cogdog “the wrong way is writing none”— yes, precisely
(DIR) Post #AbQeCWZJXpvQcYow1A by samplereality@post.lurk.org
2023-11-02T21:20:51Z
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@Roundtrip @clive @1994clipart Thanks for the shout-out! My alt text for @1994clipart is now at 110,000 words...and counting.
(DIR) Post #AbQeCYodBrMjae0CAa by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:00:49Z
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@samplereality @1994clipart @Roundtrip Aha, so cool!!
(DIR) Post #AbQeL3W4vgex7iNJuy by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:01:07Z
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@Zotmeister Truly
(DIR) Post #AbQeQmo5y30R2OXDmq by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:02:01Z
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@zipzorilla @micron Yep — I’ll text inevitably helps anyone who is trying to scrape images for machine learning purposes
(DIR) Post #AbQeWxT5F6lpq8eLi4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:03:02Z
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@jupiter_rowland Fair enough!
(DIR) Post #AbQeeTUGawbdAkmsFc by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:04:03Z
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@kellylepo Ooooo so cool! yeah, describing images of space would require a really deft way with words
(DIR) Post #AbQejkOv8Zcx4rnioi by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:02:49Z
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@Cotopaxi Yep! I think a lot of the really big news organizations had devoted caption-writers back in the day
(DIR) Post #AbQepBKeR3S43DOZRw by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:03:20Z
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@raisin Yes, precisely
(DIR) Post #AbQeuU5S8HmRfLoZw8 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:05:42Z
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@prolixious I’d never heard of that book, but it sounds precisely up my alley! Thank you so much
(DIR) Post #AbQf2HcoLkSDKg8XUO by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:04:18Z
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@l0ve30 Me too!
(DIR) Post #AbQg2NMH8KpV4I0hEG by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:22:07Z
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@micron Very true
(DIR) Post #AbQg7RUHD1nrK2AWIK by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:21:41Z
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@ravisambamurthy It’s so good
(DIR) Post #AbQgL5UBo4Pb8kdOc4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:23:40Z
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@stefan Such a cool site!I realize that you and I spoke many years ago — when I used your Twitter bot code on glitch to make a poetry bot, for my wired column about glitch I’m pretty sure your Twitter bot code was one of the most used repositories on glitch lol
(DIR) Post #AbQgXnU62yYN4eeRs0 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:26:39Z
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@khm LololI think that’s a pretty good read on Larry Wall’s eye gaze
(DIR) Post #AbQgdfzunOHtakL008 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T12:25:42Z
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@Satsuma That site is great, one of my Internet friends mentioned it in a comment on the Medium post – it’s so cool!
(DIR) Post #AbQgkqcDiWkGY7frLk by philmoscovitch@mstdn.ca
2023-11-03T12:28:57Z
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@clive I don't know if you are a TWUC member, but we had a piece in the magazine (I'm the editor) on accessibility and books last year, and I thought I was fairly knowledgeable, but I learned a lot from it.
(DIR) Post #AbQgkseQ9Jh4rWie3c by philmoscovitch@mstdn.ca
2023-11-03T12:29:18Z
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@clive We made some design changes to the magazine after running it.
(DIR) Post #AbQi2cdIXiQyLkDYhs by stefan@stefanbohacek.online
2023-11-03T12:45:35Z
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@clive Thank you!Yes, that was quite a while ago! Haven't really looked at Twitter's API in nearly a year at this point. But hey, if you ever want to make a Mastodon/fediverse bot, you know where to look!
(DIR) Post #AbQlIWhieXwmSSYqX2 by oxpal@mastodon.coffee
2023-11-03T13:22:03Z
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@clive Seeing how perfect the latest image recognition AIs are: won't modern screen readers have them integrated soon? Maybe they already do? I wonder how long it makes sense to add them.
(DIR) Post #AbQrAFV1KsCOVT3d6O by ravisambamurthy@drupal.community
2023-11-03T14:27:47Z
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@clive Here's my panning shot of a flying painted stork :) The water body and the vegetation in the background are blurred by the panning camera, while the bird is captured in full detail. #BirdPhotography
(DIR) Post #AbQzOWft4g2jSiSWrA by cogdog@social.fossdle.org
2023-11-03T15:59:57Z
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@clive I've played with a bookmarklet that blurs images lacking alt and there are extensions that identify gaps, but...What I'd like to see is one that replaces all images with alt text and then you have to hover to see the image.Flip the experience.
(DIR) Post #AbR6Dt6M3DJhVmiIFM by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T17:16:35Z
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@cogdog Nice! I like it
(DIR) Post #AbR6KhLs8OTT67De1Q by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T17:17:07Z
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@ravisambamurthy Well done!!That does not look easy 😅
(DIR) Post #AbR82OCYnNhgOsGEnA by stefan@stefanbohacek.online
2023-11-03T12:46:32Z
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@clive And thanks again for sharing the site. I really liked reading through some of the comments you received.I know there is a lot going on in the world, but I really believe we'll be better equipped to solve our problems once we all learn to have a bit more empathy and compassion for each other.And I think this is one way it can start, for some.
(DIR) Post #AbR82P1bjaXKxC90MK by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T17:36:53Z
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@stefan 💯
(DIR) Post #AbR9fGDWW0UWsuoJZA by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-03T17:54:49Z
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@oxpal Good question! I think the trick will be figuring out more efficient ways to run those models — right now, I think it’s too computationally intense and thus too expensive to do it scale. But that could change if they start figuring out more lightweight ways to do that processing
(DIR) Post #AbRLAnvmJivlv2koxU by mattrambles@t00t.cloud
2023-11-03T20:04:00Z
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@clive Yesss! 👏Recently observed a conversation about how alt text would be an ideal thing to farm out to AI and I’ve come to appreciate the opposite! I try to work in how an image feels to me or add dry jokes. Alt text is writing and it can be a kind of nerdy love letter to an unknown person.
(DIR) Post #AbRg3Og5uHRYbnj9aS by NatalyaD@disabled.social
2023-11-03T23:58:00Z
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@clive I enjoy reading ALT text which can help me make sense of images and work out what the poster felt was important. For me ALT text writing really makes me think about an image or video, what is important, what do I think is important. On an inclusive WhatsApp group, a friend asked others to ALT his post as he couldn't at the time. 2 of us ALT texted it and and clicked send close together - it was fascinating to compare our ALT texts.
(DIR) Post #AbRkAJchUwmcm8h756 by drahardja@sfba.social
2023-11-04T00:44:08Z
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@clive To me, the most important part of alt-text is crafting an experience optimized to the reader. Is the image’s function simply illustrative? Then I write short, terse alt-text so the reader can get on with it. Is the image a piece of art that should be pondered and appreciated? Then I describe the stylistic aspect of it in more detail. The same image used in different contexts may warrant different amounts of alt-text.
(DIR) Post #AbRtkt9vkjiJ06kfFA by leadore@toot.cafe
2023-11-04T02:31:34Z
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@clive FYI The first link just gives an error message (either 502 Bad gateway, or 500 Something went wrong). With the second free "friend" link, the article is truncated in the middle of a sentence after the first few paragraphs. But, glad you are using Alt-text anyway :)
(DIR) Post #AbRv0cYhLBtI6QOzOS by bayport@theatl.social
2023-11-04T02:45:37Z
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@clive Alt text is also a great place to put some Easter eggs. And also a way to get around character limits if needed
(DIR) Post #AbT5UfMcfWtcBqgAka by cesstra@mastodontech.de
2023-11-04T11:11:56Z
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@drahardja @clive and not to forget it is a respectful invitation to somethi ng a visually impared reader might otherwise be completely excluded to. And we all know how it feels to be excluded. The need for human connections are hardwired in all of us.
(DIR) Post #AbT5UyZ1Hf6NjncqDA by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:17:46Z
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@drahardja @cesstra Totally!
(DIR) Post #AbT5aqHYzHQ9n4G2XQ by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:18:26Z
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@bayport Yep yep — those are other awesome aspects of alt-text
(DIR) Post #AbT5hZbVOa9A5fnM12 by breadbin@bitbang.social
2023-11-04T02:34:48Z
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@drahardja @clive I wish I could get feedback if I write an alt text. I have no idea if anyone reads them or if they think they are good or bad:(
(DIR) Post #AbT5hacxaeu9GTU1vE by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:18:56Z
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@breadbin @drahardja Yeah, I don’t get any feedback on mine either
(DIR) Post #AbT5qafOoUPRzcurC4 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:21:42Z
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@leadore Thank you for letting me know!I checked ‘em, though, and the links are legit — they worked when I tested them on a few different machines I have here (Linux, mobile, Windows, Mac) when signed and un-signed into MediumWhat client/app are you using? I’ve periodically heard that Medium links break or don’t work on the built-in browsers on some clients/apps If you have the inclination/ability, and want to try it on a laptop/desktop, that’d probably work
(DIR) Post #AbT64CoSIZ8y47e0UC by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:22:04Z
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@leadore Thank you for letting me know!I checked ‘em, though, and the links are legit — they worked when I tested them on a few different machines I have here (Linux, mobile, Windows, Mac, mobile) when signed and un-signed into MediumWhat client/app are you using? I’ve periodically heard that Medium links break or don’t work on the built-in browsers on some clients/apps If you have the inclination/ability, and want to try it on a laptop/desktop, that’d probably work
(DIR) Post #AbT6OQkwARQz6Ldu6K by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:27:54Z
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@drahardja Yes, precisely The reason why one is using an image changes how one describes it
(DIR) Post #AbT6WWQ2zp0IyvjJEe by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:28:41Z
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@NatalyaD Oooo that’s cool — the idea of comparing how one’s friends describe the same image as we do
(DIR) Post #AbT6d7FYyMdcwqyDB2 by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T16:29:37Z
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@mattrambles Yep — I do think that AI could be useful at scale, or in providing a prompt to get one started or to move more quickly …… but there is something cool about a human-authored one
(DIR) Post #AbT6rh0aotnvuCv1Lk by NatalyaD@disabled.social
2023-11-04T16:33:11Z
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@clive It was completely spontaneous. I'm neurotypical, the other person who I don't know very well is autistic. It was a nice chance to see how the other thinks. It also makes me think of #AgainstAccess by deafblind poet John Lee Clark https://audio.mcsweeneys.net/transcripts/against_access.html and how the human-view is sometimes better than this sterile "neutral" view which can never be unbiased. Part of our own ALT text is part of our social media practice; as much our own as our words and other styles.
(DIR) Post #AbTDjEbhEQnhBMBgYq by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-04T17:50:03Z
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@NatalyaD 💯I hadn’t seen that thing with Clark, I’m going to check it out – thank you for the pointer!
(DIR) Post #AbTE5He6c7yWygpPbU by leadore@toot.cafe
2023-11-04T17:54:04Z
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@clive Ooops, I found the problem on my end in my browser settings--sorry for the false alarm! 😳 I enjoyed reading the rest of the article. I agree with the apt comparison of good alt-text to poetry. One thing poetry is for is to evoke a feeling in the reader about an experience or moment, which is a thing that artistic images and photos aim to do as well. Those are the ones to put that extra effort into.
(DIR) Post #AbUHgNgdbx3nRrLz8K by clive@saturation.social
2023-11-05T06:08:51Z
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@leadore No worries! The apps really do behave weirdly some times so what you were writing about seemed plausibly like bug