Post AbEhFAIwJPQVBiEPnE by antares@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by antares@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AbEQcJk1h46htaM5AG by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T14:34:41.512119Z
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I don’t understand how many on the side of the pro #Israel side are afraid of humanizing the nonviolent civilians in #Palestine. There’s legit suffering. People are starving. Don’t be afraid of that, in fact it can help one see the flaws in #Israel’s approaches.Maybe these people are running off of appeals to emotion, and think that anything that kills civilians must be wrong no matter what else it prevents? So they know that if they see an orphan cry they’ll do a complete 180 on who to support in the #Israel #Hamas war.
(DIR) Post #AbEQhFduMN26dDqW6y by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T14:35:36.434603Z
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But ofc another thing too is that it’s the terminally online and college students who support #Palestine and #Hamas, generally. Pretty hard for me to find people IRL who are willing to defend #Hamas’ actions, or say that #Israel should let them be, or treat them with kid gloves as they have in the past.
(DIR) Post #AbEUjH3kSl7rQC9Wy0 by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T15:20:44.275084Z
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Like, it can be true that people on both sides are facing unimaginable suffering, while also being true that #Hamas needs to be stomped out using methods that will kill their human shields.To quote #PiersMorgan, “the question now is, what is a proportionate response?”It is inevitable that some human shields would die. I would posit that what should happen next should be the option that causes the least amount of Palestinian deaths, but also defeats #Hamas and shortens the conflict rather than lengthening it.
(DIR) Post #AbEUnh61bJkjKbKDYW by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T15:21:35.460276Z
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And also if the #UN wants to punish #Israel for things like the siege that’s fine, and probably needs to be done, but I don’t think that’s as important to do right now as beating #Hamas. If #Israel can live, there will be plenty of time to punish them later.
(DIR) Post #AbEY4XjtwU5b64hdhI by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-10-28T15:58:15Z
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@realcaseyrollins > If #Israel can live, there will be plenty of time to punish them later.only that very likely tens of thousands of people in gaza are dead then and israel gets a slap on the wrist at most, as usual. some are just more equal 🤷
(DIR) Post #AbEbcBYPEWTHzy3kQq by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T16:37:55.440430Z
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@bonifartius Maybe, maybe not. But the only way to take umbrage with my valuation of human life here would be to value Palestinian life above Israeli life, since I’m arguing for what would lead to the least amount of casualties on both sides.
(DIR) Post #AbEdpuJmJRUkVLt8ds by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-10-28T17:02:50Z
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@realcaseyrollins israels leaders are clearly not interested in limiting casualties.
(DIR) Post #AbEgqiaDjAT8GIeoFs by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T17:36:34.611301Z
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@bonifartius I’d disagree that they don’t care at all, but I think they don’t care nearly as much as they should (hence the siege}
(DIR) Post #AbEhFAIwJPQVBiEPnE by antares@qoto.org
2023-10-28T17:12:28Z
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@realcaseyrollins The Hamas invasion was a complete intelligence failure on the part of the IDF. They were completely unable to infiltrate the terrorist organization as they have in the past. I don't know if this is actually true but I read somewhere that Hamas only recruited people for this mission who could show that the IDF had killed both their parents. What they are doing right now is not destroying the terrorists, it is radicalizing the ones who will attack Israel in the 2030's just as the ones who attacked this time were radicalized in the 2014 retaliations.Israel needs to figure out how to defend itself without radicalizing more terrorist than it kills if it wants to shorten rather than lengthen this conflict.
(DIR) Post #AbEhFMuxPsy2J66wiW by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T17:40:58.656862Z
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@antares What they are doing right now is not destroying the terrorists, it is radicalizing the ones who will attack Israel in the 2030’s just as the ones who attacked this time were radicalized in the 2014 retaliations.Israel needs to figure out how to defend itself without radicalizing more terrorist than it kills if it wants to shorten rather than lengthen this conflict.You’re definitely right here to an extent. The problem though is that the only way to make sure that #Israel’s geopolitical enemies don’t get radicalized would be to either genocide them, or allow the Jews there to be genocided, neither of which are good options and it doesn’t sound like that’s what #Israel wants either.
(DIR) Post #AbEjjs0qZQLvLHXPIO by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-10-28T18:08:58Z
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@realcaseyrollins well, in my book turning off water, food, power in a place, proceeding to bomb the shit out of it while guarding the exits pretty much sums up "don't care" for me.it's pretty interesting that even germany abstained the vote for the resolution instead of voting no. seems even in the politburo patience is running thin now.
(DIR) Post #AbEkDY7X5qzqKqojAm by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T18:14:19.316433Z
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@bonifartius I don’t agree with that standard but that’s fair enough.it’s pretty interesting that even germany abstained the vote for the resolution instead of voting no.Was this for the ceasefire?
(DIR) Post #AbEl5BxFin1ZE7aTui by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-10-28T18:24:02Z
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@realcaseyrollins > Was this for the ceasefire?yes, and the israeli diplomat apparently is in full rage mode over it. as our government are rabid leftists they are now stuck between a rock and a hard place: either shit on palestine supporting the next forever war and your leftie voters hate you. or shit on israel which as i said is against german "reason of state".the diplomatic part is quite entertaining to observe even if reality is pretty grim. maybe it at least helps people to see that everything is bullshit.
(DIR) Post #AbEmwAuaQhopIIAW0m by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T18:44:47.066011Z
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@bonifartius If I recall, the #UN’s resolution didn’t say anything about #Hamas, is that correct?
(DIR) Post #AbEnxAKq9u6NkXU7aC by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-10-28T18:56:12Z
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@realcaseyrollins i think so.
(DIR) Post #AbEq6EGV7GdWS8u9Cq by realcaseyrollins@social.teci.world
2023-10-28T19:20:13.522208Z
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@bonifartius I remember different, but let’s say that you’re right. What would be the goal of such I ceasefire? Is anyone seriously expecting that either a) the ceasefire would be permanent, and b) #Hamas would cease operations as a consequence of the ceasefire?