Post AaqP8L74P54SepTgrw by zeh@mstdn.io
(DIR) More posts by zeh@mstdn.io
(DIR) Post #AaokMNtp5MmgTh5D1c by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-16T05:13:11Z
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"This is a reading list on the commons, https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/What_You_Should_Read_To_Understand_the_CommonsAnd this is a reading list on peer to peer: https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Sources_of_P2P_TheoryHere you will find my previous editorial activity, which, I have to warn you, is somewhat controversial, as I am unequivocally opposed to what is called ‘common-enemy’ politics, and favor broad alliances around constructive common goals, known as ‘common-humanity’ politics."#MichelBauwens, 2023https://4thgenerationcivilization.substack.com/p/towards-a-fourth-generation-civilization#P2P #commons #P2PFoundation
(DIR) Post #AapXHtsB8qTzXpceiO by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-16T14:21:24Z
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@strypey just to make sure people are aware: Michel Bauwens turned the P2P Foundation into his personal fiefdom and a platform of his reactionary politics. https://p2p-left.gitlab.io/statement/This can even be read in the post you link, in which "I" is the operative word to describe contributions, rendering invisible all the collective work for so many years, until everyone left.
(DIR) Post #AaqCo7Ev4lnKO8jupk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-16T22:06:38Z
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@zeh > Michel Bauwens turned the P2P Foundation into his personal fiefdom and a platform of his reactionary politicsThat's one story about what happened. Here's another;https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Details_on_the_Cancellation_of_Michel_Bauwens
(DIR) Post #AaqDfp30vgtnbWmQb2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-16T22:16:32Z
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This looks to me like the same kind of character assassination campaign launched against Richard Stallman, and a growing number of left-leaning and "anti-corporate" activists, including Mark Fisher, David Roviks, Laura Poitras, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, and even Jeremy Corbyn, the only left-wing leader of UK Labour in decades.This pattern reveals a defensive PR strategy serving corporate interests, and anyone who propogates it uncritically is a Useful Idiot for them.@zeh
(DIR) Post #AaqDjxFyLnNKDqoOKu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-16T22:16:48Z
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This looks to me like the same kind of character assassination campaign launched against Richard Stallman, and a growing number of left-leaning and *anti-corporate* activists, including Mark Fisher, David Roviks, Laura Poitras, Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, and even Jeremy Corbyn, the only left-wing leader of UK Labour in decades.This pattern reveals a defensive PR strategy serving corporate interests, and anyone who propogates it uncritically is a Useful Idiot for them.@zeh
(DIR) Post #AaqEhMIosF1izDTAbQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-16T22:27:59Z
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"...we are extremely worried that interested and passionate people may also be subjected to alt-right talking points which are carefully honed to sow division among people who could otherwise more easily combine forces towards commons based production."https://p2p-left.gitlab.io/statement/This is simply projection. Sowing division is exactly what this kind of Cancel campaign does. It has no other function, other than helping alt-right recruitment, of course, by alienating people from the left.@zeh
(DIR) Post #AaqOIaUrxgNPJMvswa by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T00:15:29Z
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@strypey > https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Details_on_the_Cancellation_of_Michel_BauwensAgain, that is a lot of self victimization and "I" (esp. for someone who is against identity politics). People can oppose identitarianism (not "identity politics" because it's not politics, not "wokism" or "cancel culture" which are dog whistles and cover for reactionaries), as do several of signatories of the statement. Bauwens adopted a political position that selects part of this criticism to support racism, hetero-patriarchy and exclusion.
(DIR) Post #AaqP8L74P54SepTgrw by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T00:24:52Z
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@strypey "looks to me"? you are making presumptions and lumping together other situations. I'm only familiar with a couple of them and won't comment.The strategy is actually spreading fear and doubt that criticism and taking political stances against abuse and oppression is itself abuse, a part of post modernist conceptions. A kind of substitution of politics for abstract moralising. This is a good text on that:https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/
(DIR) Post #AaqPKqdT1sTdtjb0Sm by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T00:27:03Z
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@strypey How is it projection? Not sure what you mean by that. The statement is well documented in the appendix, did you see it?https://p2p-left.gitlab.io/statement/appendix/
(DIR) Post #AaqaPRtdXGAM79YVE0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-17T02:31:18Z
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@zeh I've read the Vampire's Castle essay a number of times. It's bang on. The treatment of Bauwens (and the others I mentioned) is a classic example of the dynamic he describes on that essay.So if you understand the problem, why are you participating in it?
(DIR) Post #AaqaX7Y94Fo1KLA3oO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-17T02:32:40Z
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The Bauwens cancellation project;>carefully honed to sow division among people who could otherwise more easily combine forces towards commons based production.@zeh > How is it projection?Me:> Sowing division is exactly what this kind of Cancel campaign does. It has no other function
(DIR) Post #Aaro9QxOqx0P5HX7Ts by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T16:38:00Z
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@strypey Did you read the part that says "rejection of identitarianism can only be achieved by the re-assertion of class"? Where is class in Bauwens words, in that appendix? There is only "I", victimplay, not listening to criticism and banning people, defense of abuse to the more marginalized. And liberalism. What i'm participating in is criticism, politics. 1/2
(DIR) Post #Aaro9TTjTi3au8fy9g by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T16:39:13Z
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@strypey There are at least two problems here: identitarianism yes, and also the weaponisation of the praxis of criticism, politics, by the right wing, to capture those without a firm and clear, class grounded positioning.We need to address both.2/2
(DIR) Post #AaroW0rS2k6QoFW8Zs by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-17T16:42:23Z
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@strypey > Sowing division is exactly what this kind of Cancel campaign does. It has no other functionOh yes it does. I want no unity with fascists. Not even liberals that covertly defend oppression and abuse of more marginalized proletarians. That is politics. Drawing lines, taking sides.
(DIR) Post #AasQQ9GdflOVOxvgB6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-17T23:48:48Z
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@zeh> Did you read the part that says "rejection of identitarianism can only be achieved by the re-assertion of class"? Where is class in Bauwens wordsWhere is class in the call-to-cancel you linked to? Fisher's paragraph continues;"A left that does not have class at its core can only be a liberal pressure group."Which is exactly what the people who signed that call-to-cancel are being.(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AasQWBiZTTxgjtsGdk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-17T23:49:54Z
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@zehFisher goes on to say"Class consciousness is always double: it involves a simultaneous knowledge of the way in which class frames and shapes all experience, and a knowledge of the particular position that we occupy in the class structure... the aim of our struggle is not recognition by the bourgeoisie, nor even the destruction of the bourgeoisie itself. It is the class structure – a structure that wounds everyone, even those who materially profit from it – that must be destroyed."(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AasQraMT2tlFFcjqvA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-17T23:53:45Z
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@zehIt's worth remembering that Fisher was pilloried for writing the Vampire's Castle article. Accused of exactly the same thing Bauwens is being accused of now; making common cause with reactionaries. The cancel mob were wrong then, and they're wrong now.(3/3)
(DIR) Post #AasRg4xvXBW4eCKxrU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-18T00:02:48Z
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@zeh> I want no unity with fascists. Not even with liberals that covertly defend oppression and abuse of more marginalized proletariansDenouncing leftists as crypto-fascists is a tactic that has a long history of being used Stalinists and actual fascists to disrupt and divide the libertarian left.Read some history. Homage to Catalonia might be a good place to start.
(DIR) Post #AasSGzt7NKklc8gweu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-18T00:09:32Z
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@zehThe intro to the Vampire's Castle essay is relevant here;"We need to learn, or re-learn, how to build comradeship and solidarity instead of doing capital’s work for it by condemning and abusing each other. This doesn’t mean, of course, that we must always agree – on the contrary, we must create conditions where disagreement can take place without fear of *exclusion and excommunication*."(Emphasis mine)
(DIR) Post #AasVKsFU1HMMwTh1sm by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-18T00:43:29Z
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@strypey Look, I referred to the Vampire Castle to 1) acknowledge the problem of identitarianism and 2) point out that class based analysis is needed. I don't need you to quote it back to me. What I needed and expected was your engagement with my main argument: there is a second problem, that the alt right distorts identitarianism to defend abuse and oppression. And that Bauwens fell prey to this trap.
(DIR) Post #AasVxEo6b21JuUBFzs by zeh@mstdn.io
2023-10-18T00:50:44Z
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@strypey You are not paying attention to what i write. I said "I want no unity with fascists" in response to you calling for unity without criteria. I was pointing out that disagreement is healthy, that i want no unity with fascists (example) and not even with liberals (like Bauwens, staement supproted and argued previously).You then add condescension, telling me to go read some history. Disrespect is another line. I'm done with this "conversation".
(DIR) Post #AasokiHHc1OQfyZN2W by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-18T04:21:23Z
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@zeh> the alt right distorts identitarianism to defend abuse and oppressionI agree this is a problem. But a related problem is a failure to distinguish between this, and on the one hand, and OTOH, criticism of the strategy and tactics of "identity politics" from the left. AFAICT the cancel campaign against Michel is a textbook example.By all means, make an evidence-based case for why I'm wrong, and I'll do the reading. But I haven't seen one yet.
(DIR) Post #Aaspe1lIs7rH23zGOe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-10-18T04:31:23Z
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@zeh> you calling for unity without criteriaThat's a straw man.I'm aware left unity with committed fascists is not possible. But I'm also aware of the danger of over-extending the definition of "fascists", to the point where it encompasses everyone outside a minority of sectarian groups. Leaving most of the population with nobody engaging them politically but the right, including the far right.This is Michel Bauwens' concern, and it's for pointing it out that he's been pilloried.