Post AadBOB44cqLcCD8QEa by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
(DIR) More posts by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
(DIR) Post #AadBNsCEmGaXg1oAoy by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T21:59:20Z
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Petition to demand that Keir Starmer commits to reinstating the NHS as a fully public service.https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/starmer-reinstate-our-nhs-fully-public-service#NHS #Labour #Starmer #labourconference #labourconference23
(DIR) Post #AadBNwtdIrg4Fm8t16 by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T22:17:01Z
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@selzero How to make the waiting lists even longer.
(DIR) Post #AadBNyQHcxOAzKQTY0 by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T22:39:27Z
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@Jackthelad How is properly financing the NHS going to make waiting lists longer? Are we adding giving out free long island ice teas to people waiting? If so, win win.
(DIR) Post #AadBNzC8l1fbNkoh8q by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T22:49:31Z
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@selzero Look across Europe at their successive healthcare systems and they have a combination of public and private. It's affordable and they never have a "winter crisis" or ever increasing waiting lists.I know it's trendy for "private = bad", but we need to take inspiration from the continent if we ever want to fix our healthcare.
(DIR) Post #AadBNztOAEGTXt3EYK by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T22:53:21Z
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@Jackthelad Look, as long as we keep to the premise that whatever people want to do with private / insurance etc etc, we also have an option for people that can't afford all that, that is properly funded, then sure, go ahead and have your BUPAs and whatnots.
(DIR) Post #AadBO0YVhL9rbQI4eG by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T23:04:30Z
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@selzero Well, it's not quite like that. The public and private sector work in tandem, and under those European systems we wouldn't be paying National Insurance (which is just another Income Tax), but instead people would have a choice of providers all at affordable prices.People would have choice over their healthcare and it wouldn't be a crazy free-for-all where no one gets seen like it is now.
(DIR) Post #AadBO1OGauYgBwVPJw by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T23:06:22Z
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@Jackthelad What happens to people that cannot pay and get sick?
(DIR) Post #AadBO2DfVnfulMYSRM by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T23:17:25Z
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@selzero In the case of the Netherlands, if your earnings are below a certain threshold or even if you're homeless, the state pays for your healthcare.
(DIR) Post #AadBO2vcsMpwxh7YxM by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T23:20:36Z
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@Jackthelad Ok so. Let's get your proposal right We STILL have zero cost at the point of use healthcare as it should be.But if you are middle class there are some hedge fund owned corporations in between you and it to make a profit.Seems like a waste of time but ok 🤷
(DIR) Post #AadBO3daEvzzA1gfTM by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
2023-10-09T23:24:54Z
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@selzero @Jackthelad The “choice” that these private healthcare bigwigs are always bangin’ on about is not what it's cracked up to be. SUre, it sounds good, you got options and that, but this choice is a slippery one - not everyone gets it, and not every choice is a real one. More choices mean more confusion for the masses. People already got enough on their plate, and now they gotta be health experts and economists to figure out which “choice” ain’t gonna leave them broke or untreated. It's like navigating through a maze, only at stake is your health, your money, and sometimes, your life.And who does this hit the hardest? The working class, the elderly, those living paycheck to paycheck. The folks who can't afford the time or the money to sift through the fine print of each "choice" they're given. It ain't just about access to services. It's about access to quality, understandable, and genuinely helpful services without a price tag that'll leave you in debt.
(DIR) Post #AadBO4K7gm1hHxadmK by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T23:27:48Z
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@bohemianchic @Jackthelad No one "demands" to get sick.That is enough to warrant taking markets out altogether.Once consent is removed from a market, it is no longer a market.Profiteering from the misfortune of your citizens is pretty disgusting actually.Systems like those in the US or the developing world where you can get sick and be financially ruined are just barbaric.
(DIR) Post #AadBO4oFsk84nPghkG by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
2023-10-09T23:26:20Z
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@selzero @Jackthelad Aslo, as Ive seen it here, introducing more private players into the system diverts essential funds away from public. If rich ppl opt for private services, there might be less public support and willingness to fund a robust public healthcare sector. This scenario could lead to a two-tier system, where the quality of care one receives is determined by their ability to pay, undermining the very ethos of universal healthcare.
(DIR) Post #AadBO4zxBFUFNhA2ym by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T23:33:35Z
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@selzero @bohemianchic The US system is dire, and no one wants that garbage.But mixed systems are very successful and some of the most common in Europe. They have far better health outcomes than the UK and they hardly spend anymore money on their healthcare.How often do you hear of a "winter crisis" affecting France, Germany or the Netherlands? You don't, because over there if you need healthcare, you get healthcare. It's not just about money. Money wouldn't solve the structural problems.
(DIR) Post #AadBO5gqblnXWjEIq0 by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
2023-10-09T23:37:48Z
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@Jackthelad @selzero Abt the “winter crisis”. Every healthcare system has its challenges and busy periods, even the Netherlands. Theyre not publicised as a “winter crisis” per se, but doesn't mean their systems are without strain or struggle during influenza season, or recently, the COVID-19 pandemic. No system is immune to increased demand.Second, the claim that these countries "hardly spend any more money" needs a second look. These countries (or lets say NL since you mentioned it) often spend a higher percentage of their GDP on healthcare compared to the UK. they invest not only in treatment but also in preventative care, health education and social determinants of health like housing and employment and even their salary range, which all play a significant role in health outcomes.money alone wont solve everything, that's true, sure. But underfunding is a significant structural problm in and of itself. Without adeqate funding, even the most efficiently designed system would crumble under the pressure of demnd.
(DIR) Post #AadBO6fSyOHsYjaiK8 by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-09T23:49:31Z
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@bohemianchic @Jackthelad It's unfair to criticize the NHS because we have had decades of Tories, and "Tory light" Labour parties that, instead of investing in it, have deliberately defunded it with the goal of making it look bad, so profiteering can take hold. The "Adam Smith Institute" etc have been spreading this ideology since the early 90s. The NHS budget is currently ÂŁ180 billion ish. To put it into context, corporate subsidies total about half that. It's no big deal.
(DIR) Post #AadBO7PuBjQyslJnhw by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-09T23:59:42Z
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@selzero @bohemianchic There will never be enough money if the current system is unfit for purpose though.If we just keep increasing funding without making structural changes, nothing is going to change. And this doesn't mean full privatisation a la the USA, which people like to scaremonger about. It just means fixing issues with management and waste.I'm happy that Labour are actually acknowledging this, seeing as they're likely to be in power after the next election, maybe they can do it.
(DIR) Post #AadBO89dRi0vAaiJzE by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-10T00:02:47Z
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@Jackthelad @bohemianchic Oh yes we can definitely make improvements everywhere.However.Stop trying to put markets and profits where they don't belong. There is no value.You are never creating proper "competition" when you have a captive audience.Again.No one "demands" getting sick. They are not a client. They are a patient.It's a hospital not a night club. They don't want to be there.Efficiency and improvements don't need profits, in most cases, the opposite is true.
(DIR) Post #AadBO8vUZmILZ16Xa4 by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-10T00:04:16Z
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@Jackthelad @bohemianchic The US system is an example of one run on profits, and they spend way more per person, and still have shit healthcare. Profits are not the cure you think they are.
(DIR) Post #AadBO9fDpksHqqV3rM by Jackthelad@mstdn.games
2023-10-10T00:31:29Z
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@selzero @bohemianchic Which is why mixed systems work so well, rather than fully public or fully private.Neither are optimal.
(DIR) Post #AadBOAS8ts0SIZO86y by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-10T00:34:13Z
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@Jackthelad @bohemianchic How do you believe the profit motive helps at all?
(DIR) Post #AadBOB44cqLcCD8QEa by bohemianchic@infosec.exchange
2023-10-10T00:41:57Z
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@selzero There's no hope in arguing the matter. :)
(DIR) Post #AadBOBhmFE6gBLi87U by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-10T00:46:54Z
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@bohemianchic I guess let some billionaire kids fresh out of school set up their hedge funds and have something to play with 🤷
(DIR) Post #AadBOCW7E4NAhTGKa8 by selzero@syzito.xyz
2023-10-10T01:00:56Z
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@bohemianchic Like I said there has been an effort over decades here to push the narrative that somehow profits have to be added to healthcare because... Reasons.
(DIR) Post #AadHCxUNMK3qdBTGgi by danielquinn@mastodon.social
2023-10-10T16:05:56Z
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@selzero @bohemianchic A friend of mine once had an excellent rant about public services. Something along the lines of:It's not a business, it's a machine. Money goes into a hospital, and healthy people come out. Money goes into transit, and people move around. Money goes into the postal service, and packages get delivered.If you're looking for profit, you're mistaking a machine for a business.
(DIR) Post #AadHZerOmnUZW241Pk by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-10-10T16:29:02.041183Z
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Assuming it's a public good, and I do think many things should be.Even Canadian conservatives are not about the idea of shutting down our single payer healthcare. It's imperfect, but still net quite good. Even the PPC doesn't have it as part of their platform to end universal healthcare and instead plan to fund it better.
(DIR) Post #AadIb8yEQFez91X3WC by danielquinn@mastodon.social
2023-10-10T16:32:59Z
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@sj_zero @bohemianchic @selzero Hard disagree. The Conservatives *and* Liberals have been going out of their way to kill health care in Canada for decades. They don't *say* they want to kill it, but chronic underfunding, permitting the encroachment of private practice etc. are step 1 in the process:1. Undermine the system to reduce effectiveness2. Claim that the public should "get out of the business of X"3. Sell off assets 'til there's nothing left.Canada's firmly between stages 1 & 2.
(DIR) Post #AadIb9f7qlyHI3bJNQ by sj_zero@social.fbxl.net
2023-10-10T16:40:31.341170Z
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I've found it's very regional. Some regions have really outstanding care, others are absolutely terrible. That doesn't necessarily dispute what you've said mind you, since it can be underinvested for years but have pockets of excellence regardless...