Post AaLCcLCPzBeQQbxAH2 by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
(DIR) More posts by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
(DIR) Post #AaLCcAuKFbEkVbPZgW by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T12:25:50Z
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I guess it's an #UnpopularOpinion but here goes: Maybe it would be better if #Mastodon simply removes the DM/Private Mentions "feature" altogether. In its current form it's effectively kinda useless. It's insecure, it doesn't feel well integrated, it feels like bolted on but not as a natural part of the experience.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcBtIau0fYhwGiu by evan@cosocial.ca
2023-10-01T12:32:28Z
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@jwildeboer it's only insecure if you don't trust your server admins. So, about as secure as unencrypted email.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcCoj9NwmQoo8Ei by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T12:29:34Z
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I guess I am very biased and opinionated in that, but for me #ActivityPub is a me-to-many communication tool with a "public by default" approach. For private communication I use tools that were made for that. Signal, and yes, e-mail, even, *gasp* phone calls.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcCp584EMRuyPmy by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T12:34:25Z
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@evan I trust my server admin (because it's me ;) but when I send a DM/Private mention to someone else on a different instance, I can never be sure about my level of trust in them.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcE5QQmtkMtcyu0 by philip@mastodon.mallegolhansen.com
2023-10-01T15:10:41Z
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@jwildeboer @evan Is the same argument still not true for email?
(DIR) Post #AaLCcEmJrJD2VvhElE by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T12:44:18Z
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Why does it feel unnatural to me? Here's the web UI after you click on "Private mentions" in the right. Note the box on the left, wehere you write a new post.The default visibility for that is still Public! NOT Private mention. Hell, that option doesn't even exist, it is suddenly called "Mentioned people only".I know that many people have been confused by this and accidentally posted something in public that was meant to be a DM/private mention.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcFaeq9TX23FRDs by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T15:25:18Z
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@philip @evan Is e-mail the topic of this thread or the IMHO weird way that DM/Provate mentions work on Mastodon? AFAICS it is very simple to make a mistake on Mastodon and publish something that should be private as a public toot. With e-mail that is not possible.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcHP26LMgeZpBNg by philip@mastodon.mallegolhansen.com
2023-10-01T16:25:58Z
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@jwildeboer @evan It’s your thread, so I’ll respect that you get to decide what the topic is. Sorry if you felt I was taking it somewhere else. It sounded to me like you were inviting the comparison to email.Yes, the mastodon UI is awkward. We can agree on that.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcHW7fz2J0Z8qQq by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T12:50:41Z
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And the other way round. When you get a notification about a new reply on a public toot but that reply was a private mention, it is really hard to spot the difference in the timeline (it's just the little @ as signifier and a different background color that is easy to miss/confuse with a "selected" state) and so people reply to such a DM, thinking the reply is public. It's really confusing, not only for me.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcILAcBrxYt1c00 by evan@cosocial.ca
2023-10-01T22:50:04Z
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@philip @jwildeboer oh, I don't mind hijacking.I think it's unfair to call ActivityPub DMs "insecure" when they are about as secure as unencrypted email, and probably more secure than unencrypted DMs on social networks like Twitter.I think we need e2ee for DMs, but we also need instance operators we trust not to read our DMs.
(DIR) Post #AaLCcJCLQUP6Dnu4si by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T22:54:06Z
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@evan @philip About as secure as unencrypted e-mails but far less secure than current solutions like Signal, Apple Messages or even WhatsApp. Or put it another way: more lessons could have been learned from the many years of e-mail ;)
(DIR) Post #AaLCcK605YvJ0PwWdE by Adam@social.lein.us
2023-10-01T23:08:37Z
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@jwildeboer @evan @philip I agree that DMs should be removed from Fedi. It should be offloaded to whatever other type of messaging service each person specifies in their profile. The way Usenet did it was alright; keep public messaging public. More of my thoughts: https://bookofadamz.com/the-fediverse-should-avoid-bundling-private-messages-completely-and-implement-this-instead/
(DIR) Post #AaLCcLCPzBeQQbxAH2 by jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net
2023-10-01T22:57:49Z
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@evan @philip And I don't really fear the instance admins. I more fear subpoenas that force admins to hand over all stored messages from user X to the authorities. In some jurisdictions even without being allowed to inform the user that has happened. Better to add some more protection IMHO.
(DIR) Post #AaLDwsqOhl3wWP0qVU by raph@social.coop
2023-10-01T23:23:37Z
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@Adam @jwildeboer @evan @philip If Fedi is to go mainstream and offer an actual replacement for corporate social media (not a one-to-one replacement, but one that helps people connect to others the way corporate social media has), then DMs are an absolute must. Having to share contact information publicly and then move the conversation to a third-party app would honestly be a UX nightmare, and a good enough reason for many to not join the Fedi
(DIR) Post #AaLExiXIcCiknO2bdg by Adam@social.lein.us
2023-10-01T23:34:59Z
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@raph @jwildeboer @evan @philip Not really; everyone already uses 100s of 3rd party apps for private messaging. If we used email which is already part of all Fedi servers, it would cover literally everyone. Add some autocrypt for encryption, & done. The whole reason other social networks bundle private messaging with public messaging is to take control of their audience and leverage all of your conversations to profit off of you. Fedi is supposed to be the cure for that.
(DIR) Post #AaZ6HnLMd9O0UAWHvE by stevenroose@x0f.org
2023-10-08T16:03:41Z
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@jwildeboerOr better integrates click-through links to #Jabber or #Matrix, with for example plugins for integrated Jabber overlay chats. They exist and could be quite easily integrated as a plug-in. @glynmoody
(DIR) Post #AaZ8AGAjlKTfUI5GNs by zash@fosstodon.org
2023-10-08T16:24:45Z
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@stevenroose @jwildeboer @glynmoody imagine embedded #conversejs in the corner :)#xmpp
(DIR) Post #AaZdO9BncP58SogOBc by debacle@framapiaf.org
2023-10-08T16:59:16Z
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@zash @stevenroose @jwildeboer @glynmoody ⇒ @jcbrand
(DIR) Post #AaZdOACXr7GxbQ2UzI by jcbrand@mastodon.xyz
2023-10-08T22:14:37Z
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@debacle @zash @stevenroose @jwildeboer @glynmoody There were some Pleroma people working on integrating it there some years back, but they never reached out to me directly to inform me about it and I don't know what happened to it. Maybe it's still being used somewhere.