Post AZzgUIaAYR5F8u1e6q by ligthert@mastodon.nl
(DIR) More posts by ligthert@mastodon.nl
(DIR) Post #AZxZJQnYmJVGWfAscq by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-09-20T13:29:57Z
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It boggles my mind how the left side of the political aisle wants more government control, and greatly trusts the state, while the right wants the government to take a more hands-off approach in comparison, yet the right wingers are considered to be more fascist than left wingers.Fascism requires three things: authoritarianism, trust in the state, and private sector cooperation in authoritarian measures. It's easier to find people who believe in all three on the left than on the right.
(DIR) Post #AZy5byM9wi62LlF8Mq by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-20T19:31:52.079650Z
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The political trichotomy is revealing itself. There aren’t two sides, but 3. It had always been that way.
(DIR) Post #AZy6b4912aLVxwE7mq by realcaseyrollins@social.freetalklive.com
2023-09-20T19:42:52Z
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@midway This is interesting. If I had more time, I'd plot myself somewhere along these axes to see where I land.
(DIR) Post #AZy6zXE6Z8n971H6pc by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-20T19:47:17Z
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@midway Huh? thats not a trichotomy since it is not "one, or the other, or the other"... If you could be only fully one of those three things, and not a combination, then it would be a trichotomy.What you are really describing are three seperate scales of two dimensions each that are being visualized on the same chart, nothing more.It is called a ternary plot@realcaseyrollins
(DIR) Post #AZy74g0fKyaNniRNfk by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-20T19:48:15.947943Z
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The reason I brought it up here is that the model says that the further one is to a vertex the more one thinks the other 2 sides are the same. This is a better model than the horseshoe theory. I used to believe that but I think this model works better. For example, the more individualist you are the more likely you are to see the other two sides as two side of the same statist (faschist?) coin. It just looks like they are arguing about who wears the jack boots and who goes to the camps. The equality side sees both the stability and individualist as phobists who want to increase inequality. The stability side sees the other two as lawless degenerates.
(DIR) Post #AZy7AC9LGkjivf88g4 by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-20T19:49:16.191645Z
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Not here to nitpick the details of the name. It’s the concepts that matter to me.
(DIR) Post #AZy7qXlNIjt87m74ts by freemo@qoto.org
2023-09-20T19:56:52Z
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@midway Im not talking about the name, im talking about the concept.This doesnt actually change the concept, the concept is still a binary scale. All this points out is there are 2 other binary scales that describe politics we talk about less. But the point is the scale is still binary.What this changes is simply how we visualize the data, the concepts themselves are the same after this new information.@realcaseyrollins
(DIR) Post #AZyWg3Lo169flCFQpM by lxo@gnusocial.net
2023-09-21T00:05:54Z
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why would this model be considered better than the by now already traditional bi-dimensional spectrum, with different axes for economic (collectivist vs individualist) and social (libertarian vs authoritarian) issues? to me, it comes across as a failure to realize that it's two separate and independent dimensions, in that it sort of has two axes, but limits how far one can go in the combinations to force the choices into a triangle rather than e.g. a squarehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrumhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass
(DIR) Post #AZyWg3zrcACJlQzQGW by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-21T00:35:08.054545Z
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Mostly because I don’t believe that left libertarianism is a real thing or at a minimum has zero practicality and so not a serious position. You can’t want the government to have a heavy regulatory hand but still want them to stay away out of your life and wallet. Those 2 thing’s don’t go together. So if you chop that quadrant off you get the 3 sides. And it better shows the alignment of fundamental value of each side more clearly, at least to me. It shows how what we call the right is really split between 2 different core values that reduce the other as one increases. It’s the fundamental divide on the right.
(DIR) Post #AZzgUIaAYR5F8u1e6q by ligthert@mastodon.nl
2023-09-21T13:49:00Z
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@midway I guess this is a US centric representation. None of it really applies to most EU nations for example@realcaseyrollins
(DIR) Post #AZzgUJeoYeOSTbCrzM by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-21T13:59:46.230814Z
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I won’t claim to be an expert in EU politics but I will assert that humans all struggle with balancing the 3 principles of equality, stability, and freedom. You can find these factions throughout history all over the world. Sure, certain sides of the triangle may be more prevalent in different parts of the world at different times, but the principles are universal. You may choose different names for them and that’s fine as well. I’m more interested in the concepts.
(DIR) Post #Aa0EdPcp8TCE27mhLE by lxo@gnusocial.net
2023-09-21T20:11:49Z
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that sounds like prejudice to me. to me, regulating economy heavily so as to prevent monopolies, economic abuse and overthrow of democracies, while enabling people to live their lives as they see fit (without abusing others) is not only a perfectly reasonable position, it's *the* most reasonable position. so your chart comes across as discriminatory and attempting to create a blind spot to hide the existence of this reasonable position.and then, chopping one quadrant of a square and combining two points that should otherwise be quite distant is not clarifying, it's a severe distortion of the picture.
(DIR) Post #Aa0EdRGZ2CZx7fNwvI by midway@soapbox.midwaytrades.com
2023-09-21T20:22:22.310508Z
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You can think what you like but what you are describing is a utopia. All that regulation comes at at high price. That high price plus the regulations themselves detracts from freedom both of actions and economic, which are essential to any freedom based philosophy.And even if you choose to believe that this is possible, it could be covered by being near the center of the triangle (how close is certainly a point of view) and, thus there is no need for the 4th quadrant. While I don’t subscribe to that personally, it’s more valid than claiming to be a leftist libertarian.