Post AZCFCS4z1dmpHZfhS4 by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
(DIR) More posts by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
(DIR) Post #AZC7F78GYz9VYGxvWq by Free_Press@mstdn.social
2023-08-27T21:01:14Z
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Investigating the Nord Stream Attack! It's a spy thriller that has the potential to change the course of international politics: A year ago, a secret commando blew up the Nord Stream pipelines in the Baltic Sea. Since then, investigators have been searching for the perpetrators. The leads they have found are extremely politically sensitive.#AureFreePress https://www.spiegel.de/international/investigating-the-attack-on-nord-stream-all-the-clues-point-toward-kyiv-a-124838c7-992a-4d0e-9894-942d4a665778?sara_ref=re-so-app-sh
(DIR) Post #AZC7F8DyVFJSwGe048 by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-27T21:22:33Z
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@Free_Press And the German government is taking investigations slowly, since they point to Kiev. Berlin is not interested in finding out the details.
(DIR) Post #AZC7F8u9yP3b36Ngoq by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T16:03:58Z
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@elpolacodesplegado @Free_Press The article has the likely answer at the end, but sensationalizes first. Russian military ships with the required sub-marine operational capability were at the location. A false flag operation with operatives partly from Ukraine (where there indeed are plenty of Russian operatives) carried out a little charter trip to the location as well. Russian troll factories were preloaded with the blame-Ukraine message as soon as the explosions happened. That proves it was a Kremlin operation. #Ukraine
(DIR) Post #AZCCSC9Fj10kdyU3ZA by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T17:02:21Z
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@troed @Free_Press That is not what the article says. Der Spiegel concluded that this was far too complex and well done to be a Russian false flag. Those ships were there to protect a critical economic asset. The most likely culprit is a group of Ukrainian military members sent by Zaluzhniy without the knowledge of Zelensky.
(DIR) Post #AZCCcvQcEJ1zyOioSG by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T17:04:19Z
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@elpolacodesplegado @Free_Press Yes, that would be russian propaganda talking point. Why repeat it?Either it was a very difficult to pull off deep dive, or it was a military operation using exactly the kind of equipment made for such jobs. That's what the article lists, at the very end.
(DIR) Post #AZCFCS4z1dmpHZfhS4 by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T17:33:08Z
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@troed The article does the opposite. All the evidence in Sweden, Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands points at Ukraine. it also compares the investigation against Prince Reus, the right-wing conspirator who wanted to overthrow the German government, and the Nordstream investigation. The former had up to 100 Federal Police investigators (BKA) working it, while Nordstream has a lower one-digit number of detectives assigned. /1
(DIR) Post #AZCFeIYQ28tJqgiZxg by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T17:38:11Z
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@elpolacodesplegado It seems we have read two different articles then. k
(DIR) Post #AZCHNGU8fm5OPvio2i by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T17:57:30Z
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@troed https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-anschlag-in-der-ostsee-die-spuren-fuehren-in-eine-richtung-in-die-ukraine-a-befcbfbb-b1cd-4912-aeaa-56bef4dd8047?giftToken=a838edf2-a15b-4780-a1e9-bf6e6170ca1dRun this through a translator.
(DIR) Post #AZCI8LyY4ppV3XOoCW by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:06:01Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Why? I read German just fine. Also Swedish and Danish, which is why I know you either post your own misunderstandings, or russian propaganda on purpose. No, the investigations aren't "pointing at Kyiv".
(DIR) Post #AZCIahbdFW4UFYCKYK by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:11:08Z
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@troed The article says otherwise. Read it or not. It's a very long piece that dies exactly point at Kiev. It's a matter of empiricism, not religion.
(DIR) Post #AZCJPqDqyOCfk4ScEa by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:20:23Z
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@elpolacodesplegado As I said: Either a very difficult dive or the very military ships and equipment made for operations just like it. https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-military-ship-spotted-near-nord-stream-pipelines-days-before-blast/amp/Ockham's razor.You do understand that just because a journalist has a pet theory it doesn't become fact?
(DIR) Post #AZCJnFx3TlWGCRlhdg by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:24:36Z
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@troed You did not read the article then. It's a multinational investigative team talking to Western police and intelligence. Not "a journalist".
(DIR) Post #AZCKDO5Drsd0wu36HY by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:29:20Z
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@troed Plus, the article you posted is six months old.
(DIR) Post #AZCKNYwAMtJTVXfHGq by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:31:11Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Yes, random people. Very different from the actual investigations taking place in Denmark, Sweden and Germany. Yet you claimed _they_ all pointed at Kyiv. It seems very important to you to claim that one specific theory is a fact. It isn't. There are no actual proofs in the articles - just the fact that there was a shady operation involving people who had connections to Ukraine. That's the very definition of how a false flag operation works. It in itself means nothing. You still need for the difficult dive to be more likely than the russian military with the actual needed equipment.
(DIR) Post #AZCKVKd1S4ObRkPnLk by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:32:35Z
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@troed They actually identified a member of UAF by name. Are you an info war account or interested in who actually carried out the attack?
(DIR) Post #AZCKZu7dQe2Kgdujr6 by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:33:24Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Why would a member of UAF be unable to be a russian operative?
(DIR) Post #AZCLY4aJerHOVk1JPk by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:44:17Z
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@troed Because he is still in active duty. How much do you want to believe it wasn't them? The question is rather how to deal with it when it breaks. They did a shifty job of the S-300 mishap in Poland, lying through their teeth for no reason. This is the same thing. There are still some old Soviet atavisms left in Ukraine. Me wishing them to beat back the Russians and winning still cannot taint how I look at these things. And while Spiegel presents evidence on ten pages, yours are theories.
(DIR) Post #AZCLhBrXy5m9gnQYDI by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:45:56Z
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@elpolacodesplegado "evidence"vs"Meanwhile, Germany’s Defense Minister Boris Pistorius warned against 'jumping to conclusions' about the latest reports, adding that it was possible that there may have been a 'false flag' operation to blame Ukraine."https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-kremlin-russia-who-blew-up-nord-stream-2/amp/
(DIR) Post #AZCLruyd5bZYVKr64u by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:47:51Z
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@troed "Meanwhile" being March 23. A lot has happened since then. Again, no evidence. Just old random quotes taken out of context. I gifted you a pay wall article. Take it and read it.
(DIR) Post #AZCLvSqPcxigPYhdoW by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:48:31Z
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@troed Unless you are not interested and follow a clearly cut agenda.
(DIR) Post #AZCMUiyTeF3OZbHwsS by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T18:54:53Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Regarding agenda: You keep using the russian spelling of Kyiv. (There's nothing new communicated by the German, Swedish and Danish investigations today compared to in March. You seem to conflate journalist pet theories with official investigations over and over. That's ... strange)
(DIR) Post #AZCMnJDBepJoAp1xk8 by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T18:58:14Z
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@troed So Russians write Latin now? Try American spelling. Again, pet theories is what you peddle by using outdated press quotes. You cherry pick information and ignore current facts. But who is Der Spiegel, but a Marxist/Putinist outlet? Yet again, read the thing before you opine.
(DIR) Post #AZCNWtmKY8accBCvrs by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T19:06:29Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Again you conflate journalist pet theories with facts. There's nothing outdated with those quotes. Or do you mean Denmark has said the russian ships they photographed weren't there now?Or wasn't the German quote about the possible false flag operation specifically about the chartered boat?Facts don't become less facts just because it's been a few months. There is no newer data communicated from the official investigations in Germany, Sweden and Denmark. Which you claimed, btw. Apparently you just make things up as you please.
(DIR) Post #AZCOAF8J5WNc8dFQEy by troed@masto.sangberg.se
2023-08-28T19:13:36Z
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@elpolacodesplegado Could you tell me more about this "american spelling" of yours?https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/20/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-travel-to-kyiv-ukraine/"Kyiv (derived from the Ukrainian-language 'Київ') instead of Kiev (derived from the Russian-language 'Киев'"https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev
(DIR) Post #AZCUQu0LUn1lG1qopk by elpolacodesplegado@hessen.social
2023-08-28T20:23:49Z
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@troed Still did not read it? Throwing white smoke to divert from that fact?