Post AZ0Aw2yzppdh6GH440 by InayaShujaat@paktodon.asia
(DIR) More posts by InayaShujaat@paktodon.asia
(DIR) Post #AYzfbwZ8t1RYpM7CfQ by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T07:15:33Z
2 likes, 0 repeats
I got an email warning from this server - after posting in Irish a number of times over the lifetime of my account here and other folks telling me that it is welcome - that my posts in Irish are *NOT* welcome on Fosstodon. Irish is a minority language not heard often, it is extremely important to me, and so this decision means this server is not a place for me. Sadly, despite my long career in FOSS.I might abandon this account and use mastodon.ie. TBD
(DIR) Post #AYzfbxGOIE2QzULk4u by sullybiker@sully.site
2023-08-22T15:57:48Z
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@mairin I'm extremely surprised. I don't understand half the languages on my timeline but this is the appeal of the place to me. It's like sitting in an airport. I really like it.
(DIR) Post #AYzkRZToMeJ86PUkzY by victorvicpal@dair-community.social
2023-08-22T07:18:28Z
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@mairin When I was considering which instance to join, being able to write messages in different languages was a priority. English-centrism seems to me to be a lack of perspective towards the multilingual society in which we live.
(DIR) Post #AYzkRaYSMrcLR6fys4 by kev@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T07:21:05Z
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@victorvicpal @mairin It’s nothing to do with a lack of perspective. It’s far more mundane than that. It’s actually to do with moderation, it’s explained here - https://hub.fosstodon.org/why-fosstodon-is-english-only/
(DIR) Post #AYzkRboRgu09KzAGQq by jtr@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T13:18:37Z
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@kev @victorvicpal @mairin It feels like people tend to scream "wtf?!" first, yell and flip tables, and then, maybe, look into reason. Another example of a person getting frustrated, and rightfully so. That part I understand. What I don't understand is when given a reasonable explanation, they respond in anger, and worse, other people who have little to do with what's going on are jumping on the wagon with angry comments. This is not the first time. This is sad.
(DIR) Post #AYzkRd0tE7Y93rziT2 by jtr@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T13:23:18Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@jtr makes me go and say "back in my day..." but back in my day, trolls like these were left and right, so I moved away from social media. I left Facebook, twitter, and slowly turned away from communities or Reddit. Yelling, it seems, was the default in those places.So I came to Mastodon and it has been good for me for years. Still is. But people are people, and as the number increase, so is the number of possible trolls. Unfortunately a human phenomenon.
(DIR) Post #AYzmyfAmQ0QDDvV5Zw by onepict@chaos.social
2023-08-22T17:20:16Z
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@sullybiker @mairin I remember the reason was for moderation as they don't have multilingual resources, when @dentangle decided to leave in 2020.Although other instances do ask for moderators who can speak other languages mastodon.art does this I think @Curator ?
(DIR) Post #AYzzyNY3FGpTxwa2Cm by lamp@kitty.haus
2023-08-22T19:45:57.868272Z
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@mairin @kkarhan we have language settings on posts so people can filter what they want; why is this an issue? :/
(DIR) Post #AZ0189346s9hqUJ7iq by xgqt@emacs.ch
2023-08-22T19:58:20Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@mairin I did abandon fosstodon mostly because of that :) (I wanted to post in Polish)
(DIR) Post #AZ04u931iOWZbdrwsS by prettygood@socially.drinkingatmy.computer
2023-08-22T20:41:08.362365Z
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@xgqt @mairin this is sad. I have fond memories of fosstodon. It was my home for years.I think the admins are even British. You would think this would not be an issue.
(DIR) Post #AZ0A8EV6jmtaLKXakq by Gina@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T18:10:55Z
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@mairin I don't understand why this is such an issue. Fosstodon is an English speaking server, for moderation purposes. When signing up to this server you agree to this. There are plenty of multilingual servers, but you chose to join Fosstodon.The reason that it's so pleasant here is because of the moderation. That moderation requires English, a) because translation services apparently aren't that great yet and more importantly b) the mods are only a small team of volunteers. I stand with @kev
(DIR) Post #AZ0A8FdIWp2br1Ne9w by InayaShujaat@paktodon.asia
2023-08-22T21:21:50Z
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@kev @mairin @Gina You don’t see it as an issue because it doesn’t negatively impact you, Gina.
(DIR) Post #AZ0A8GT3QORQRXaypc by Gina@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T18:11:22Z
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@mairin and of course it would genuinely be a shame if you, or anyone, left over this rule. I certainly hope yall stay.
(DIR) Post #AZ0A8HSjj3mVWqSEyW by duponin@udongein.xyz
2023-08-22T21:39:29.459067Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@InayaShujaat @kev @mairin @Gina as an admin of users I don’t speak language, barely remotely know how to read their alphabet: yes it’s a huge matter to be able to read what users postI’m lucky to have adorable and wonderful users, but we went through propaganda and trolls accounts (in a language I can’t decipher)
(DIR) Post #AZ0Aw2yzppdh6GH440 by InayaShujaat@paktodon.asia
2023-08-22T21:42:44Z
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@duponin @Gina @kev @mairin Have you heard of online translators? They're wonderful. And free. 😑
(DIR) Post #AZ0Aw3dlOGFV8hLcbg by duponin@udongein.xyz
2023-08-22T21:48:32.460861Z
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@InayaShujaat @Gina @kev @mairin I don’t have time and energy to translate every single posts on local timelineand they often miserably fail at translating slangs, which is the common gate for troublemaking posts :bunsmile2:
(DIR) Post #AZ0C7vIAM4KSg0T2o4 by InayaShujaat@paktodon.asia
2023-08-22T21:51:08Z
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@duponin @Gina @kev @mairin Sorry that you insist on being a one-person mod team. If only you could get people to help you, but that would require asking them....Seriously, boo hoo. The world is made up of people from different backgrounds, who speaks different languages, and have different ways of expressing themselves. Do you walk around in this world refusing to hear non-English languages? Online should be no different than in person.
(DIR) Post #AZ0C7vzPlGvKq8haDY by duponin@udongein.xyz
2023-08-22T22:01:50.598615Z
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@InayaShujaat @Gina @kev @mairin read out About page (or don’t, not forcing you) and see where we stop people speaking their native languagesame with our home timeline, you should read at least 4 different languagesfwiw english is not my native language, I can speak two others and learning two others, thank you for not assuming Im a monolingual moron> If only you could get people to help you, but that would require asking themplease stop that hypocrisy
(DIR) Post #AZ0XhzVOGWHtCqh19c by victorvicpal@dair-community.social
2023-08-22T07:25:46Z
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@kev Thank you for the explanation. I can see that it was a difficult decision and my comment had no perspective on the specific situation of this instance. My sincere apologies.On the other hand, I understand that people might want to migrate their accounts if for them writing in other languages is important.@mairin
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiAjyUdUQ3GbJui by kev@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T07:31:20Z
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@victorvicpal @mairin absolutely, we totally get that, and no need to apologise. I just wanted to let you guys know that we did put a lot of thought into this decision.Mairin, if you do decide to move away, we will still love you, and Fedora. 🙃Sorry about the “warning”. 99% of the time it’s more of a”reminder”, but there’s no mechanism for that in Masto when it comes to managing reports.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiEnfOqosdsMKDw by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T07:39:39Z
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@kev @victorvicpal Hey Kev,would have been nice to get a "warning" or heads up about this some months ago when I started posting in Irish, look at my timeline, there is plenty of it.I have never caused any moderation issues on this server, I am a good citizen. Too bad that won't be considered.You need to rethink the phrasing of this email and policy. English is an ugly language w a cruel history.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiFVyk6GUrJ5iIC by kev@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T08:06:01Z
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@mairin the rules are clearly stated when you sign up. There’s a pop up that you have to acknowledge that you agree to the rules. It’s also mentioned on our instance description, so would have been prevalent in apps too. 🤷♂️We wish you the best on your next instance.@victorvicpal
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiGG3yl81AEeW7k by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T08:08:31Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kev @victorvicpal So you choose to selectively enforce it? Allow someone to become comfortable over 11 months, then stab the knife?This is *not* in the spirit of FOSS at all. You need to improve your language and messaging at a bare minimum. My current position as-is w the status quo is that this is a colonialistic server. You need to do better.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiGY8tXae4J6xIu by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T07:41:41Z
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@kev @victorvicpal I understand and recognize a lot of thought was put into this decision but IMO it is misguided and ignorant.It positions non-English language speakers (likely unintetionally but it still does) as being somehow more likely to post bad content needing moderation. It's not a practical consideration. It's inhumane, sorry.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiI0tS8BMblZQky by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T08:10:11Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@kev @victorvicpal I cannot in good conscience recommend anyone involved in FOSS (the vast majority of whom are not native English speakers) use this server with this handling of the issue.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XiJdZPoiLe0fpgG by mairin@fosstodon.org
2023-08-22T08:12:48Z
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@kev @victorvicpal This is an issue of humaneness. A person's language is a core piece of their identity.
(DIR) Post #AZ0XucV76gJLcjaLvk by osslate@mastodon.ie
2023-08-22T18:24:48Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@Gina it's worth noting that Fosstodon *became* an English only server; it didn't start as one. When it changed, there was significant backlash.Translation services are good enough for moderation, plus there's always the option of starting dialogue with a person to better understand context. I spoke to that somewhere in the thread, but other admins have come out and said the same.The only limitation is in willingness. Telling someone to GTFO as Kev has done, only shows hostility.@mairin
(DIR) Post #AZ0XueBgprxir4Vrvs by osslate@mastodon.ie
2023-08-22T18:30:52Z
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@Gina things might be "good enough" for you, but this situation feeds into the larger issue of inclusivity in FOSS. It puts up unnecessary barriers. It really isn't as difficult as Kev would like you to believe, to get rid of this anglophilic rule and still have effective moderation. You don't even need a gigantic team to do it. Speaking from experience.@mairin
(DIR) Post #AZ6pZ15lxc4He2L9bk by meowski@fluf.club
2023-08-26T02:52:20.260924Z
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@mairin i thought irish people spoke english :thonking: