Post AYkoQk9jxtFgEJS7Hs by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) More posts by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
(DIR) Post #AYkoQjWOKBmCGH2gxE by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T11:47:51Z
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many Brits regret voting to leave EU (EU citizenship is something beautiful: visa-free condition-free ability to move to other EU country immediately, e.g. my Polish pal was bored of Poland and moved to Portugal):
(DIR) Post #AYkoQk9jxtFgEJS7Hs by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T11:56:00Z
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@CSB The problem is the UK and EU erecting trade barriers and travel restrictions. You can quite easily eliminate them without establishing these giant international bureaucracies, which are Faustian bargains.
(DIR) Post #AYkoqsahE9ODv2WWDQ by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:00:44Z
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@jhclouse nope, EU is for that
(DIR) Post #AYkpR3oOz86X95BdU8 by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:07:16Z
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@CSB You could do it without the EU though. Just repeal all the immigration and customs laws. Now you have freedom without the bureaucratic garbage.
(DIR) Post #AYkpbTijVpPaOZVEKu by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:09:08Z
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@jhclouse @CSB While I agree that the #EU organization is getting too big and powerful, there has to be a lot of similarities in the legal systems to make completely free trade and movement possible. Even the quite tightly associated Switzerland has border controls. And very strict immigration laws.
(DIR) Post #AYkpnrfmHfNc9o1iM4 by Mummabear@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:11:22Z
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@CSB no they don't.The gov though that the USA was their answer to everything.Oh it's notđ
(DIR) Post #AYkq7QoZqqA6eMTMye by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:14:56Z
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@useless_idiot @CSB Yes, you need governments on both sides to stop sticking their nose in where it doesnât belong. Trade agreements are the twisted Twilight Zone form of that where you get a little bit of freedom in some ways while giving bureaucrats control over your lives. Thatâs why I called it a Faustian bargain.
(DIR) Post #AYkqHy6YvzY8nEuSAa by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:16:49Z
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@Mummabear you donât but the article proves that some do I saw several such articles
(DIR) Post #AYkqnu6LM3r7dw2Eim by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-08-15T12:22:14.581832Z
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@jhclouse The idea that âyou can quite easily eliminate themâ was one of the core arguments for Brexit but the EU-UK negotiations demonstrated quite the opposite: âgiant international bureaucraciesâ reflect giant complexity of joint but not uniform interests of the 27 Member States of EU. The existing rules represent the greatest common denominator acceptable by all Member States, whereas UK believed it can impose its own rules exclusively based on the merit of being UK. And that was only after UK government actually figured out what it wanted, because for significant part of the two years negotiation period it was not so clear.@CSB
(DIR) Post #AYkrC6TazpjGyQRzDU by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T12:26:58Z
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@jhclouse @CSB I think the EUrostanians should be more aware of what happens in Bruxelles and Strasbourg, write their MEPs more often, and vote more carefully. @kravietz
(DIR) Post #AYkvBPFa6q7Sj8oncu by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T13:11:40Z
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@CSB @kravietz It was a core argument of the handful of people who believe in freedom. They were overridden by the bureaucrats. States arenât conscious beings and donât have âinterests.â The individual human beings that run them do though: gaining power and ruling over you like cattle. They just convince you that their lust for power has something to do with your safety and prosperity. It doesnât.
(DIR) Post #AYkvwYiMjswJgrlYo4 by jhclouse@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T13:20:11Z
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@CSB @kravietz @useless_idiot Voting and communicating does nothing when the nature of power is corrupting though. We have the same scam going on here in the US. They enslave us with smug grins on their faces knowing there arenât enough people awake to the dangers of power to stop them. I know itâs not going to change. But it galls me so much that I have to do something to feel better. And the only thing I can do is keep ringing the bell of radical individualism and freedom.
(DIR) Post #AYkyIaZCjVL7iL75XM by useless_idiot@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T13:46:35Z
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@jhclouse @CSB If you are a Christian:The parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge - Luke 18:1-8And I would say that getting involved in (local) politics is a good way to expand your reach and to make a little change for the better! That involvement is the price to pay for a more robust society than Robinson Crusoe had.But I get your point, and it pains me to have to defend so many sleezebags and idiots. Though I have to say there are a lot of honest politicians too. @kravietz
(DIR) Post #AYkzkW4V8hwRppdIp6 by kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
2023-08-15T14:02:26.026434Z
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@jhclouse I disagree with that assessment on many levels, and I will try to explain it using example that should be more familiar to you.United States is an union of 50 states. Each of these states represents the collective interests of its citizens, and they are very different between various states of the USA. This is reflected in their very different state laws, from local taxes, business regulations to capital punishment.States fought civil wars between them to enforce some of their laws on other states, which demonstrates how conflicting they can be.Then on top of that thereâs federal laws and the government of the USA, which represents the collective interests of all US citizens.And on top of that thereâs international organisations of which US is a member, and mutual treaties US has signed, whose are binding for US and result in either changes to US law or take precedence over it.For example, US membership in WTO requires that some forms of protection of US economy are removed, which is certainly disliked by some US businesses, but at the same time the net effect is likely positive for the US as it gains access to foreign markets. At the same time other forms of protection are in place in order to protect other businesses, which is for example why some US citizens are forced to smuggle insulin and other drugs from Canada and other countries.Now, if you replace âUSâ in this text with âEUâ it will pretty much the same apart for some formal differences resulting from different legal systems.But at the core of all this complexity thereâs a single key factor: itâs mathematically not possible to map individual preferences of ~300 millions of US citizens (or ~500 in EU) onto ~500 representatives of US Congress (~700 in EU Parliament) in a way that will satisfy everyone. What we call âbureaucracyâ is a very complex social system that is a continuous attempt to establish such representation in a way where the least people will be underrepresented. @CSB
(DIR) Post #AYl0thIarkLFDTAMy0 by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:15:42Z
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@useless_idiot at least war among EU members is out of the question, so preventing war is not bad
(DIR) Post #AYl1JR6jgfAiWrtR44 by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:20:21Z
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@jhclouse individualism? so you want to Texas to leave USA?
(DIR) Post #AYl2nXHpNWpIKmzv6G by nldtmv@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:36:59Z
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@CSBThey still don't get it they never left.The WEF puppets were still there and it had to become a punishment, so other countries would think twice.
(DIR) Post #AYl34RwNDGu7oj9040 by restful@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T13:20:06Z
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@CSB The UK got the wrong answer in the referendum. So clearly another referendum is needed. That worked for Ireland on the Lisbon Treaty. On the other hand though Brexit happened, the UK government have failed to open up the UK economy as promised and are currently suckling on the EU teat without having voting power. So maybe it would be good to complete Brexit properly and see how things turn out. Of course, that might not benefit the rich.
(DIR) Post #AYl34SnC2t9gSXrBOS by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:21:19Z
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@restful wrong, there will be no second try, they voted and they are out for ever
(DIR) Post #AYl34TZP9digs4PgXY by restful@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:39:43Z
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@CSB Let's hope so. Then there will be a clear path forward. If the UK succeeds maybe Poland will consider it as well. You know they want to. Then maybe there will be a UK/Polish trade alliance. Poland might need to annex Germany to make the trade routes a bit easier.
(DIR) Post #AYl3MmHELEZy6NdhI0 by CSB@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-15T14:43:22Z
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@nldtmv they left as they canât stay in EU longer than 90 days per year , previously: full year