Post AYjPJsgl9PHEebZHMm by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
(DIR) More posts by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
(DIR) Post #AYjPJsgl9PHEebZHMm by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:39:54Z
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I'm not sure Red Hat sees it as a drama. It all seems perfectly simple to me. If you want to use RHEL, pay up. If you don't want to pay, go and use something else.All this posturing and frothing at the mouth is not going to change anything. Red Hat is on a different course now. It's up to the community to decide if they're left behind or if this is just a new chapter unfolding?I wonder if OpenELA will be around longer than UnitedLinux?https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/14/oracle_suse_ciq_openela/
(DIR) Post #AYjPQQXEDwtJMcEOsS by andypiper@macaw.social
2023-08-14T19:41:04Z
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@dick_turpin we now return you to your regular levels of cynicism!
(DIR) Post #AYjPX430ELW5eBG4xs by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:42:16Z
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@andypiper I prefer "realism'. idealism is a stagnant pool. 😉 😘
(DIR) Post #AYjPs33h6O6Kf4aVAO by tig@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:46:04Z
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@dick_turpin I think the thing is that lots of places that ARE big RedHat shops run production on RedHat but dev and non-production is all community EL distros so they are using the same tools and standards as prod but without the faff and licencing which in a big organisation can be a nightmare. The whole thing stinks of IBM accountants trying to extract as much cash out of RHEL without understanding Linux or the community around it.
(DIR) Post #AYjQTGwkQhuyRt5Xlo by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:52:47Z
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@tig Oh god yeah. But is it a case of the Bean Counters not understanding the history of Linux or the community not understanding or rejecting business?And so what if there's "History" surrounding RH and RHEL? I suspect IBM would argue they're not dumping the community by continuing to support Fedora but rather protecting their own interest in RHEL as a component of their business. Let's not forget their main focus is support across FOSS and not just RHEL.
(DIR) Post #AYjQdiO5GBDiS1r0hk by tig@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:54:41Z
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@dick_turpin well lets just see if RH under IBMs control maintains their standing as a good community member when it comes to code and projects.
(DIR) Post #AYjQq3mJYU9UGi4fBI by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T19:53:51Z
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@tig @dick_turpin they could just run Centos Stream. RedHat has invested alot in the effort it takes to make RHEL so stable. If you need that, pay for it. Otherwise use Centos or whatever other distro. They are still abiding by licences and in many cases going beyond requirements.
(DIR) Post #AYjQq4fGGC6X17mXpI by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:56:54Z
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@intrbiz Yeah, I don't understand why they dumped CentOS? The only answer I can see is IBM saw it as a direct competitor for RHEL, which they were planning to make a "Paid For" service. You can't exactly charge for RHEL and have effectively the same product running around the marketplace for free.@tig
(DIR) Post #AYjQx42cyX4n6z2orY by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:58:11Z
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@tig Do they want to be a community member? Or do they now see themselves as a force within the IT business community?
(DIR) Post #AYjQyUPMQjY5AyMDVw by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T19:58:26Z
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@dick_turpin @tig they didn't dump Centos, its more important than it ever was. Just upstream rather than downstream. Which can be better for a lot of situations.
(DIR) Post #AYjR4M0oYiCEsFfkn2 by penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:59:30Z
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@dick_turpin @tig IMHO it's the source license frig which is the nasty bit about it.
(DIR) Post #AYjR4p06mPrYmSZ6DQ by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T19:59:35Z
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@intrbiz I thought they pulled support?@tig
(DIR) Post #AYjRPVPGpFjS5kCIQC by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T20:03:18Z
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@penguin42 what will be interesting for me is how they legitimately overcome those licensing restrictions. At the moment, they have a fudgy workaround.@tig
(DIR) Post #AYjRPwtgcH6ZLtdT4y by tig@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T20:03:25Z
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@dick_turpin @intrbiz but if you wanted a fast moving distro in the RH world then Fedora is literally there... not sure of how taking out Centos was better. As ignoring dev machines etc you are knackering an upgrade path from centos to RHEL
(DIR) Post #AYjRSb04U9esJBssng by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T20:03:53Z
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@tig EXACTLY @intrbiz
(DIR) Post #AYjRwTW0sVdPmZ4Xi4 by tig@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T20:09:16Z
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@dick_turpin @intrbiz "oh fedora does desktop stuff" "no problem let's run a rolling release centos on the prod server"... So back up this rather biased and rude version of a conversation that never happened. If you were testing centos stream with your application how do you know exactly what RHEL build release will match that?
(DIR) Post #AYjS16hz6Kk0UnseiO by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T20:10:04Z
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@dick_turpin @tig except that Centos Stream is not moving fast, nothing like Fedora. It's still ABI stable and compatible with RHEL.For the usecases you really really need the same as RHEL, use a developer license.
(DIR) Post #AYjSvYmxt0Mbnn83Oq by Sabex@noagendasocial.com
2023-08-14T20:20:21Z
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@dick_turpin I couldn't agree more. Red Shat customers are after something else - and probably don't care about community or FOSS.I don't know why hobbyists and FOSS advocates would care. Arch, Slackware, Debian and others have been around for years and will continue to be around. Shoulda been using one of those.
(DIR) Post #AYkSwEr7fyyLQeMCvo by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T20:11:43Z
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@tig @dick_turpin rolling releases on servers is the future. The need for RHEL to be a stable target for ISV vendors is gone with the advent of containers and flatpack. RHEL doesn't need to be a standard any more.
(DIR) Post #AYkSwFZR1EPxe55b04 by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-15T07:55:08Z
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@intrbiz I disagree. Businesses want "Stable" The fact you can blow away a container or VM and replace them, hopefully, within, say, thirty minutes; while cool for Sysadmins to a CEO or Director, it's irrelevant. Their argument is still: "I want a system that doesn't fall over or become corrupt. A stable system."@tig
(DIR) Post #AYkT08dKkjjbHxlc2K by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-15T07:55:52Z
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@intrbiz I don't even think a bleeding-edge desktop has a place in a business environment, either.You want your staff to do the job you employed them for, not spend their day idle while the IT department sorts out that buggy update that a distro didn't bother to QC before releasing.@tig
(DIR) Post #AYkTQvPxzoym7VHtJ2 by tig@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-14T20:16:39Z
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@intrbiz @dick_turpin I agree in a way and don't know if I should be euphoric or depressed about it. Everything is now containers, I am now trying to not to go off on a rant as to the shit quality of containers...
(DIR) Post #AYkTQxRSTFMQOi06uO by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T20:19:17Z
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@tig @dick_turpin can often be better packaged than some of the shit RPMs or bonkers PHP / Python deployments I've seen over the years. The technology is not a limiter of the quality, just like it never was before.
(DIR) Post #AYkTQyE1YgD0pKitbk by intrbiz@bergamot.social
2023-08-14T20:20:59Z
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@tig @dick_turpin but having my prod servers auto-update themselves with security fixes every few days, in a totally automated way is game changing in many ways.
(DIR) Post #AYkTQz4qOISZT9R4wC by dick_turpin@mastodon.org.uk
2023-08-15T08:00:37Z
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@intrbizRH used to do that; they had "Auto-Update" until the -y flag started killing systems and they realised that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.@tig