Post AYigDuIXl4MzyF1Cbo by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) More posts by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
(DIR) Post #AYigDooEAM9IwlnQA4 by Tvorsk@meow.social
2023-08-12T21:41:41Z
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@eevee Tbh, at the same time, I'm feeling weirded out at the sudden explosion of competing methods to package Linux software "windows style" by bundling all the damn libraries and stuff right with the app instead of adapting to what's provided by the system.Does it work? I guess yes.But it just feels so... weird and "wait, this must be against the rules, right?", especially as it's not as polished as Mac bundles either.
(DIR) Post #AYigDpYJP10pFhMDzc by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-12T21:45:26Z
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@Tvorsk @eevee this usually happens as a result of getting an endless stream of bug reports that boil down to things like "Debian ships a version of libstdc++ that is completely broken and has been for years" and waste an incredible amount of time that could be spent on literally anything elsestatic linking is the older solution for this issue, but it doesn't work for GUI applications, so here we are
(DIR) Post #AYigDqXHkJmkInsv20 by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-08-14T08:09:58Z
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@whitequark @Tvorsk @eevee Debian hurts the Linux community in sooo many ways, I really wish it would stop existing 😩
(DIR) Post #AYigDrReMks77cFvt2 by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-12T21:47:33Z
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@Tvorsk @eevee I think the final straw for me was having to deal with bug reports from someone who kept running the application I ported to Linux natively through wine because they can't build it themselves for some reason and the debs I built didn't run on their slightly different Debian derivative
(DIR) Post #AYigDrlVAwke7BXmpU by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-14T08:14:58Z
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@1ace @Tvorsk @eevee debian is a part of the linux community
(DIR) Post #AYigDsZUB6jYcCvhjs by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-08-14T10:54:11Z
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@whitequark @Tvorsk @eevee yes, in the same way CEOs are humans *and* CEOs hurt humans. And in both cases some members of that group also do good things (although probably not that many for CEOs), but in both cases I believe we would be better off without them 🤷
(DIR) Post #AYigDtIrSP1usw9wSu by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-12T21:49:45Z
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@Tvorsk @eevee it doesn't run all that well on wine (it bundles ANGLE, so you go through ridiculous two layers of graphics translation before you hit Mesa) but I guess being able to run it at all, even like that, was preferable to themI eventually just stopped shipping debs entirely because it was taking far too much time, and let a contributor package a snap, which had none of these issues
(DIR) Post #AYigDtIrSP1usw9wSv by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-14T10:56:16Z
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@1ace @Tvorsk @eevee are you, in essence, accusing the Debian users and maintainers of abusing the rest of the Linux community by existing?
(DIR) Post #AYigDuIXl4MzyF1Cbo by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-08-14T11:05:21Z
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@whitequark sorry, I think I'm just extra grumpy today.The comparison was not fair, obviously CEOs are much worse. Debian devs do some good, but the way they do it (mostly because of their policies) is hurting both users (they get old & buggy software) and devs of the rest of the Linux ecosystem (wasting their time having to deal with angry users that were given bad software, many burning out). Debian _is_ hurting everyone.(Also, just boarded an airplane, I won't be able to reply for 2h+)
(DIR) Post #AYigDuy1GrXy2sQKG0 by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-14T11:07:12Z
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@1ace I think that the people who use Debian clearly want to be using Debian for some reason. Like, I use it on my server because using a rolling release on a server is not something I have or will ever have time for
(DIR) Post #AYigDvcmpI9m5JUsng by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-08-14T11:11:37Z
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@whitequark it's not like Debian is the only one doing that so you _have to_ go with that one 🤷
(DIR) Post #AYigDvleILFIWndxc8 by whitequark@mastodon.social
2023-08-12T21:51:02Z
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@Tvorsk @eevee I think that anyone who says "just use what's on the system" has not actually tried to ship even a fairly minimal Linux GUI application to non-programmers.
(DIR) Post #AYigDvvZhRBZ1aHt5M by 1ace@mastodon.gamedev.place
2023-08-14T11:09:04Z
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@whitequark also, Debian devs have skill the can apply in many others places, starting with any other distro, so I think they will not be affected all that much if Debian were to stop.And everything I've said so far applies to all Debian derivatives obviously
(DIR) Post #AYigDxDKuszH0xbaPQ by xerz@fedi.xerz.one
2023-08-14T11:14:30.436323Z
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@1ace @whitequark welp, say, my government only provides packages for using my ID card with either Ubuntu, Debian, or a superoutdated Fedorawhat choice should I go to
(DIR) Post #AYigRzP7ZRLvrRoHZ2 by xerz@fedi.xerz.one
2023-08-14T11:17:08.515801Z
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@1ace @whitequark like *clearly* we should aim for a transition towards distros with better package manager UIs and build systems and whatnot, but I don't think the harm done by having to figure out what `packaging-tutorial` is trying to teach users, or the lack of features like rollbacks, is bigger than providing a safe option that you know will work with your software easily ‒ and so switching over will take time
(DIR) Post #AYjNapWJz4L1qGdj9M by aperezdc@oldbytes.space
2023-08-14T19:14:04Z
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@xerz @1ace @whitequark FTR, the user contributed packages in the AUR for the Spanish DNIe have always worked more reliably for me than anything I tried back when I was a Debian user. That's all I'll say, and now I'll see myself out :blobcatpeek:
(DIR) Post #AYjNar4kCZT2fJkjRY by xerz@fedi.xerz.one
2023-08-14T19:20:28.865563Z
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@aperezdc @1ace @whitequark yeah I know about it, but that is based on the .deb packages and you can't expect most people to figure it out on their own or accept installing it for business and administrationsbesides, it always worked for me on Debian as long as I use the same libc and Firefox ESR (although calling it "working" is quite a stretch, not even on Windows the driver seems to work at first try every time)
(DIR) Post #AYjOKtlIXvIsJlc10S by aperezdc@oldbytes.space
2023-08-14T19:28:28Z
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@xerz @1ace @whitequark indeed, the AUR packages reuse the contents of the Debian ones, but somehow they manage to make things work more reliably. Anyhoo, the software coming from the public administration sure is a tire fire and that is the main problem with it.