Post AYbTzX2ItEDuDM58Ns by djr@union.place
(DIR) More posts by djr@union.place
(DIR) Post #AYbTzUDtLgi5UQTqWu by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-09T16:37:33Z
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#Tories #ERG #CONservatives #50pLee #Smogg #Corbyn #Momentum #tRump #MAGA #GOP #RepublicansThe ERG/Tories & Corbyn Cults are the UK's equivalent of Trump's MAGA Cult, without the insurrection.Change my mind... 🤷🏾♂️
(DIR) Post #AYbTzVC9jcuqVKfySm by djr@union.place
2023-08-09T16:56:27Z
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@AnthonyFStevensClearly some degree of equivalence although more so on the right than the left. Prorogation of parliament in 2019 by the #Conservatives and subsequent attempts to intimidate parliament fit the bill reasonably well. The case against the left a lot weaker although not lacking entirely.
(DIR) Post #AYbTzWIDeZMNuQWKYK by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-09T17:17:21Z
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@djr Agree to a degree. I included Corbyn because he represents Labour's past, BUT his Momentum disciples won't move on.They blame EVERYONE bar Corbyn & his followers for Labour suffering the biggest general election dry bumming in political history. 🙄HOWEVER, they won't/can't move on from Labour. I've heard them say "Vote for Kieth (Keir) on Thursday, & attack him on Friday morning."Regarding the ERG/Tories & MAGA, what has the UK & US done to deserve these crooked, lobotomised fools? 🤷🏾♂️
(DIR) Post #AYbTzX2ItEDuDM58Ns by djr@union.place
2023-08-09T19:05:33Z
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@AnthonyFStevensIn my view the result in December 2019 was rather overdetermined. #labour failed to respond organisationally to June 2017 as well as the #Conservatives did - and that is a charge against #Corbyn and to some extent #momentum .However even if they had - given the games the #libdems and the #snp were playing - not to mention the sheer amount of disinformation #tacticalvoting websites were putting out it would have at best reduced the size of the #conservative majority!
(DIR) Post #AYbTzXvxYIk6zy7a8O by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-09T19:36:32Z
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@djr The parties you're fighting against for votes are hardly likely to do you any favours to their own detriment.Corbyn put his Labour Party's case to the UK electorate & they handed him the heaviest election annihilation in political history 😳Labour were told Corbyn was unelectable, but his followers didn't care!I asked several of them would they rather Corbyn as Labour Leader, OR Labour in power under another Leader? Up to today, I've not had ONE reply!There's the problem... 🤷🏾♂️
(DIR) Post #AYbTzYrk5SxntB9jCS by djr@union.place
2023-08-10T12:17:31Z
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@AnthonyFStevens With regard to the #snp you have a good point. At least in the short term their tactics in 2019 paid off. The same cannot be said to apply to the #libdems - who were guilty of "hubristic incompetence" on an industrial scale. Their approach did not gain them seats overall but helped to lose #labour around twenty or thirty. And of course some of those operating #tacticalvoting websites may have been actual "bad faith actors".
(DIR) Post #AYbTzZf18GNYM0D50K by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T14:55:33Z
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@djr @AnthonyFStevens The 2019 election was lost in England as well as in Scotland - #labour even lost 6 seats (the same number as in Scotland) in #Wales to the #toriesOut - unheard of!#corbyn was an electoral disaster - no ifs or buts
(DIR) Post #AYbTzaocq1etw5iGcS by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T15:50:10Z
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@jackLondon @djr It still beggars belief that the left blame everyone else for Labour's defeat, & REFUSE to even consider pointing the finger at Corbyn & his Leadership team. 🙄They got what they wanted & were roundly battered. What else is there to consider?#Corbyn stood down, a leadership election was held which Starmer won, but yet Labour's defeat was Starmer's fault! 😳Thankfully it seems this delusional madness has mostly been driven out of the party. 🤷🏾♂️
(DIR) Post #AYbTzbcFrVMEQ0vtya by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T16:48:52Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @djr Well I kind of understand the driver for this - I would really like a more distinctly left approach to be popular with the electorate - but the fact is - it isn'tAnd the failure by #labour not to refocus in 2017 when defeated by May was an error that caused major destruction in the body politic and our country as the extremists of the current #toriesOut ran riotIt will take a generation just to undo the damage AFTER the 2016 Referendum.
(DIR) Post #AYbTzcN33Wmul8pGue by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T18:51:18Z
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@jackLondon @djr I had several discussions with "The Left" who were under the impression they were on another planet ideology wise.After comparing ideologies, there was far more which united us, than divided us. The main difference was our approach & their insistence the rich were hammered. Why? Ideology.Myself, I'm for fairness & everyone paying their share, instead of this failed trickle down nonsense.So when you say a "left approach", can you be more specific?
(DIR) Post #AYbTzd8uBb4L9ZDUVU by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T19:43:23Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @djr By a more "left approach" I mean all the policies in the 2019 #labour manifesto - and moreBut the priority is election of a left-of-centre govt, not any of those policies So basically - any policy that threatens achieving a majority should NOT appear in the manifestoAbsent commitments to these policies - I still trust#labour over #toriesOut - any day of the century
(DIR) Post #AYbTzdmbnypP8hnCOO by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T20:07:46Z
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@jackLondon @djr So what are the major difference between the 2019 manifesto & Labour's direction now?
(DIR) Post #AYbTzeZsqmF9bWqYCG by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T22:33:09Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @djr I'm not here to educate - but the 2019 manifesto is here https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Real-Change-Labour-Manifesto-2019.pdfIt includes several promises that have since been withdrawn. #labour lost that election - Corbyn resigned & the party has rethought the offering to the electorate
(DIR) Post #AYbTzfKg2nfpwejv8K by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T22:47:38Z
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@jackLondon @djr I know what was in it, however things changed rapidly after #GE2019 & Labour have had to take on board what led to the defeat & adjust to the Covid/Brexit new normal.As many have said, it wasn't Labour's message that was the issue, it was the messenger. This is why it still beggars belief that many Corbyn loyalists want him to return to Labour as leader.It ain't happening, so why don't the left unite into one coherent party & fight #GE2024? 🤔https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_left
(DIR) Post #AYbTzgCCpmUYcfmfZI by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T23:15:59Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @djr Well I think it was both.... it is tricky disentangling message from messenger in modern politics, but IMO another maybe more media-friendly #labour leader with that same manifesto would still have lostClearly that is the conclusion of the current leadership, who have trimmed the sails significantlyAs for the left uniting...... forget it! If they can't have the last piece of cake, they would prefer nobody had it, and #labour remain in opposition....
(DIR) Post #AYbTzhCb5oOnkAyUoi by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T23:23:57Z
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@jackLondon @djr It was said the 2019 manifesto was detail heavy & needed to be pared down. I suppose we'll see when the new one's produced.As for the Left uniting, that was another funny one. Every time I suggested it, they went quiet. Once I pressed them on it, & someone revealed how many left wing parties there are who can't agree on policy & who all want to be boss! 😂If they can't unite to form a new party under Corbyn, Abbott & McDonnell etc, is the 2019 hammering really a surprise?
(DIR) Post #AYbTzi5tmCdQVgqf0y by jackLondon@mastodonapp.uk
2023-08-10T23:29:17Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @djr Frankly many of these people are not #labour but SWP types who sought to hijack a big party to impose their view of the world on the rest of us, and are furious at their ejectionThere is no majority for attempting to create a socialist utopia - but they will not accept that
(DIR) Post #AYbTzipz0rUwocPSqW by AnthonyFStevens@mastodon.online
2023-08-10T23:39:21Z
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@jackLondon @djr Nail on the head! They're Social Anarchists, not Socialists & just love being angry about something or the other.When I saw the list of Socialist parties they were on about, i think think the membership of one was 4k & another less than 1k!They bragged about swelling Labour's £2 per month membership from 250k to 560k & really believed this was a catalyst to win an election!It was a coup of the Labour party, organised by Momentum, plain & simple... 🤷🏾♂️
(DIR) Post #AYbTzjXaOkNOzqoHoG by Yukari_Kajiwara@detroitriotcity.com
2023-08-10T23:54:29.061008Z
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@AnthonyFStevens @jackLondon @djr the true socialist isn't someone like you or anyone in this thread.