Post AYS2SEaE1vPiF6CthQ by bhaugen@social.coop
(DIR) More posts by bhaugen@social.coop
(DIR) Post #AScX8uZLYrGuyvk6Pw by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-02-12T10:09:04Z
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Anybody know much about the Earthstar storage protocol? @bhaugen @edsu @strypey @bonfire https://earthstar-project.org/Looks like it's kin to SSB? It's a small and resilient distributed storage protocol designed with a strong focus on simplicity, and the social realities of peer-to-peer computing kept in mind. It's offline-first. Servers are optional. https://earthstar-project.org/docs/what-is-itWho's in the project? https://earthstar-project.org/community/our-backersCreated by Cinnamon
(DIR) Post #AScX8vcvd1jOGKQTdg by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-12T11:13:07Z
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@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @strypey @bonfire hello! I’m the project’s current full time maintainer. Happy to help with any questions!
(DIR) Post #AScX8wGzE5m2GZAT4q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-13T00:51:49Z
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First I heard of Earthstar, thanks for the tip @mike_hales.Hi @gwil, my first question about new tech is always what problems does it solve that aren't already solved by existing destabilised storage tech like BitTorrent, IPFS, SSB, HyperCore?https://blog.mauve.moe/posts/protocol-comparisonsHow does it relate to projects like Solid?@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AScXHRiWCZvm6Z6Oem by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-13T00:53:25Z
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First I heard of Earthstar, thanks for the tip @mike_hales.Hi @gwil, my first question about new tech is always what problems does it solve that aren't already solved by existing tech? In this case, decentralised storage tech like BitTorrent, IPFS, SSB, HyperCore:https://blog.mauve.moe/posts/protocol-comparisonsHow does it relate to projects like Solid, that aim to separate data storage from applications?@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #ASdNEHFLry5mNZGnOS by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-13T10:35:09Z
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@strypey @mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire It's hard to keep this short, but I'll try.Application: a few of the systems you listed are solely for storage, whereas Earthstar is primarily an application database.Scope: many of these systems work is unbounded public namespaces where everyone's data exists side by side, whereas Earthstar is designed for usecases from 1-100 users.Mutability: Earthstar can really edit and delete data because it does not use an append-only log.Networking: many of these systems push you into a DHT where, at the very least, your device's membership of the network is revealed via its IP. Earthstar leaves the means of propagation to the user, e.g. sneakernet vs. via servers over the net.
(DIR) Post #ASdbABbeITWz5NduPw by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-13T13:11:25Z
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@strypey @mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire And I forgot to reply about separating data storage from applications 🙃I really want it to be easy to write scrappy, script-like applets which all act on the same pool of data. For example: you have an applet which associates and avatar and display name with your keypair, which my dinky epub sharing app can then pick up on.Unlike solid (I think), the data is all local, with the browser client being a full peer.
(DIR) Post #ASetgNGEUfOIpc5Ecy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-14T04:13:39Z
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@gwilGreat answers! Second question, do you anticipate EarthStar being used in future iterations of the fediverse? Also a hard one to give a short answer to, but how might that look in practice? Bonus question, have you looked at the work @cwebber and co did on DataShards?https://datashards.net/If so, how does the design of this compare to EarthStar? (Note: I'm CamelCasing the name for the benefit of those using screenreaders).@mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #ASfU0UeEKpspsqCWAq by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-14T11:00:50Z
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@strypey @mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire I really like tools which are able to link up with things I already use and like, e.g. browsers, RSS. My blog (https://gwil.garden) is an Earthstar peer I've extended to serve HTML and RSS using data from its own replicas. I could add an extension to this peer which gives it ActivityPub endpoints, and store messages in Earthstar (and this is something I'd like to try... one day...)I'm acquainted with @cwebber and her (amazing) work, but not with Datashards. Datashards and Earthstar share the concerns about propagating data to peers you don't trust, or hosting data you don't want yourself. In other ways it's a bit apples and oranges because Datashards is a data storage thing, and Earthstar is a database thing.Also do screenreaders really trip up on Earthstar? It's a proper noun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geastrum_triplex) and VoiceOver doesn't seem to have any trouble with it.(and is it okay for me to be mentioning so many people in here??? Feels like I'm committing some fedi-faux-pas...)
(DIR) Post #AShP6IdfmnoGvAoFJw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-15T09:14:59Z
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@gwil> Also do screenreaders really trip up on Earthstar?No idea, but when in doubt I camel case. Accessibility FTW :P@mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire @cwebber
(DIR) Post #AShPOHXAdI7chtLIUC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-15T09:18:29Z
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Again, great answers, thanks for going into detail with example. I'm starting to get a clear sense of what EarthStar is about. But...@gwil> Datashards is a data storage thing, and Earthstar is a database thing.... I'm a little unclear on the distinction here. Care to elaborate? @mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire @cwebber
(DIR) Post #AShnzMYbJlBztsE4jw by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-15T13:53:20Z
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@strypey Given that 'Earthstar' is a pre-existing proper noun and that it is understood by screenreaders, I'd appreciate it if you referred to our project by its preferred spelling, Earthstar.
(DIR) Post #ASho74Y69goGMjfQJs by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-15T13:54:46Z
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@strypey @mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire @cwebber It's the difference between a directory full of arbitrary data files, and a Sqlite database of structured data you can query data from and upsert data to.
(DIR) Post #ASib1GxnyrJ2sxYUm8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-15T23:02:49Z
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@gwil > I'd appreciate it if you referred to our project by its preferred spellingSorry, will do.
(DIR) Post #ASibMlui6VsMxNMLWC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-02-15T23:06:48Z
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@gwil > a Sqlite database of structured data you can query data from and upsert data to.Ah, OK. Thanks for your patience with these questions and your clarifiations, which I'm finding very helpful :)@mike_hales @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire @cwebber
(DIR) Post #ASjNK511QIUv8B5sMC by gwil@post.lurk.org
2023-02-16T08:04:31Z
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@strypey thanks!
(DIR) Post #AYS2SEaE1vPiF6CthQ by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T10:11:53Z
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@mike_hales @edsu @strypey @bonfire I first learned about Earthstar in SSB. I met some of the people mentioned in their https://earthstar-project.org/community/our-backers in SSB.But I have never tried Earthstar.I don't have a working SSB client that I like anymore and seldom visit, but I spent a lot of time there in prior years. We got pulled into SSB by Mikey Williams who created the https://www.valueflo.ws/ website.
(DIR) Post #AYS2SFJbJDi4VpR8QS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T10:33:32Z
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@bhaugen > I don't have a working SSB client that I like anymoreYou don't dig ManyVerse?> and seldom visitI get the impression that's true of most people who used to use it. When I finally got ManyVerse working. A hardcore of true believers, mainly talking about SSB topics, and a lot of tumbleweeds ...Even @rabble, founder of the Planetary SSB app, seems to have shifted his camp to Nostr. Would be curious to know what he thinks of EarthStar.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS2YBbk0QsakekonA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T10:34:18Z
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@bhaugen > I don't have a working SSB client that I like anymoreYou don't dig ManyVerse?> and seldom visitI get the impression that's true of most people who used to use it. When I finally got ManyVerse working, I found a hardcore of true believers, mainly talking about SSB topics, and a lot of tumbleweeds ...Even @rabble, founder of the Planetary SSB app, seems to have shifted his camp to Nostr. Would be curious to know what he thinks of EarthStar.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS52b5s0w5aOHTYJs by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T11:02:29Z
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@strypey > You don't dig ManyVerse?Haven't tried it. Maybe I should. But where's the time and headspace? Especially social media headspace, which is now filled with fediverse.I appreciated your report.And what, @rabble is now focused on Nostr? What's the attraction over there? Haven't gotten into that, either.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS7OhNnVmXCAvWlpQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T11:28:54Z
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@bhaugen > rabble is now focused on Nostr? What's the attraction over there? "we’re focusing new work on a new app, derived from planetary called nos.social"https://www.nos.social/blog/pivoting-from-ssb-to-nostrIt lists a bunch of benefits they see in Nostr over SSB, including this:."Relays are nodes which can provide a more federated governance model than what we see in SSB, but also provides for user autonomy to have multiple personas than is possible in the fediverse."@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS7l4vQf6ZFYsviJU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T11:32:59Z
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Me:> Would be curious to know what Rabble thinks of EarthStarAnswered here:"I thought that p2panda and earthstar would be it, but although super interesting, both evolved in ways that weren’t a great fit for the kind of social app that planetary, manyverse, and patchwork provide users.
"https://www.nos.social/blog/pivoting-from-ssb-to-nostrNow I want to know what @rabble thinks of HoloChain and social apps on it like Neighbourhoods:https://neighbourhoods.network/@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS85hzD8yYIUzXIHI by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T11:36:43Z
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"I think there’s a reason why many of the post ssb signed log gossipy social media protocols have gone from purely peer to peer to a hub and spoke model of content hosting. We’ve got easy cheap cloud computing, we should use it instead of making our phones work overtime.
"https://www.nos.social/blog/pivoting-from-ssb-to-nostrAe. Totally predictable that all the P2P networks would drift towards more federated models. P2P software made sense when everyone used a desktop, not a phone.@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS9HtmVDRcsVey66q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T11:50:06Z
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@bhaugen> Haven't tried [ManyVerse]. Maybe I shouldI'd hold off on that for now. Andre too is abandoning SSB, and creating his own protocol for ManyVerse:https://www.manyver.se/blog/2023-06-05/Doesn't seem like it will be compatible with the remaining SSB apps (abandonware PatchWork and maintenance-mode Planetary) or Nostr (classic XKCD #927)From a brief skim of his progress reports, the new look MV, connecting over the new protocol, might be ready to use by early next year?@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYS9n5UHk6CdnDJrDk by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T11:55:43Z
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@strypey What (if anything) is the relationship between SSB and Nostr?@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSGKQIA0pu9b7vWsa by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T13:08:35Z
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@strypey That nos thing is interesting thanks. Here's a review by Al Jazeera of the entrepreneur's strategy, and its ctiticshttps://www.aljazeera.com/program/rebel-geeks/2015/11/11/rebel-geeks-steal-from-the-capitalists/@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSIiC5seTywQCe5k8 by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T13:35:32Z
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@strypey That nos thing is interesting thanks. Here's a review by Al Jazeera of the entrepreneur's strategy, and its ctiticshttps://www.aljazeera.com/program/rebel-geeks/2015/11/11/rebel-geeks-steal-from-the-capitalists/@bhaugen @edsu @bonfireActually (read it now!) it's a boost for Henshaw-Plath. The journalist says he's a good thing (identifies as "a non-ideological anarchist'), even tho he looks kinda capitalist.
(DIR) Post #AYSKFuVadkQTgKJPf6 by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T13:52:11Z
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@strypey That nos thing is interesting thanks. Here's a review by Al Jazeera of the entrepreneur's strategy (Evan Henshaw-Plath), and its ctiticshttps://www.aljazeera.com/program/rebel-geeks/2015/11/11/rebel-geeks-steal-from-the-capitalists/@bhaugen @edsu @bonfireActually (read it now!) it's a boost for Henshaw-Plath. The journalist says he's a good thing (identifies as "a non-ideological anarchist') even if he looks kinda capitalist.The video on that page is INteresting. The al-jazeera journalist is the film's director. Jasmin Fedda https://yasminfedda.com/
(DIR) Post #AYSOwzIT728qnjyGGG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T14:45:32Z
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@bhaugen > What (if anything) is the relationship between SSB and Nostr?None at all as far as I'm aware, except that Rabble and co have made software for both.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSP2M0w4syohnKSfI by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T14:46:32Z
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@strypey thanks.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSQmTE9gvMMLs4ANc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T15:05:30Z
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@dinosaur > in case you do find the time and headspace to jump back into SSB, Manyverse is a great way to jump in... until Andre finishes his new protocol and turns the ship of ManyVerse to use that ; )@bhaugen @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSR7WmJgT5rRj5NJ2 by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:09:56Z
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@strypey My impression of SSB devs, all of whom I dearly love, is that they don't think of their work as lasting beyond their personal interest in it.@dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSRwaIKN0Hr7XP876 by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T14:04:00Z
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At 17:00 in that video, an interesting snippet:"Surveillance is (just) a subset of the issues of social control thro data."A bit out of my depth here, but therse ppl are having an in-depth insider discussion on radical software work.What's the data politics that needs to be implemented in our (coop, commons, p2p) apps and platforms? And what are the protocols?What does indieweb say, for example? What does Bonfire say?@strypey @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSRwb9VBIozmSHazo by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T14:13:26Z
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Around 20:00 in the video:"Media channels/platforms/techs for activism/social change are easy to shut down if they just get used for activism. Viable media must be used (and thus highly usable) for everyday stuff, not 'political' and targetable. Must be open to radically varying practices, even practices that oppose each other."Hmmnn. Could be a pitch for a mega-profitable corporation.Also: communities/platforms that accumulate LOTS of data, survive. Hmmnn.@strypey @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSRwbsAVEYC0zBGcK by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T14:36:36Z
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Really nice thought (paradox?) at 23:15, video closes at 25:00. No spoiler (actually, hard to capture).However . . a clue: The thing I find hard here, is that I refuse the Stallmanist proposition, that whatever tech we become able to create, must be open to every kind of use, without any discrimination. History tells me that technologies have politics, and the politics of such an 'open' technology is that it gets shaped for uses against people, by capital. @strypey @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSRwcXI2LRa4WQ6iG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T15:19:09Z
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@mike_hales> History tells me that technologies have politics, and the politics of such an 'open' technology is that it gets shaped for uses against people, by capitalYes, which is why it's essential for licenses on *all* software to forbid capitalists (or anyone) from doing that. So that anyone can have the source code and the legal freedom to modify all software, for their specific needs or their communities'. This is Stallman's core argument and he's right. @bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSSVnAgUEH1BzcLmC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T15:25:31Z
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@bhaugen > My impression of SSB devs, all of whom I dearly love, is that they don't think of their work as lasting beyond their personal interest in itThat's simply the reality of software development. Once nobody has a personal interest in (even an indirect one like getting paid), it stops happening. How else do you imagine them thinking of their work? @dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSSt6xv3hFbF8lZdQ by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:29:41Z
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@strypey > How else do you imagine them thinking of their work? Maybe imagine your software having an effect on an endangered world. I know some of them imagine some of that.@dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSTJaDEwPYjTrYTqK by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:34:29Z
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@strypey Sorry, it's not a matter of legal right and licensing. It's a matter of who in fact invests in and takes material ownership of the ongoing critical activities in the community, in practice. Like Microsoft and GitHub. 🔥 Flame coming..@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYSTPXAVAjcdmE70Iy by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:35:33Z
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@strypey Stallman is fine with capitalists using copy-left software, no? IBM has participated in some of that.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT6XFRYqwkdKilDoe by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:33:43Z
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@strypey This is not mysterious. Working on standardized protocols can be relatively long-lasting, and some of the SSB devs work on those.@dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT6XG7kK6UlRYUuZM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T22:53:41Z
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@bhaugen> Working on standardized protocols can be relatively long-lastingPerhaps that's the problem. None of these P2P protocols ever seem to get properly standardised, so there's a constant reinventing of the wheel, usually in every shape but a circle. Maybe if the people working on FreeNet/ GNUNet/ DAT/ SSB/ Aether/ Nostr etc etc went to the IETF and did the standardisation work, they could agree on a circular wheel to build their vehicles on?@dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT6bQW7cjICprt1No by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T22:54:44Z
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@bhaugen... like the social web federation folks did by going through the W3C.@dinosaur @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT8e4JsoF1WliY7RA by mike_hales@social.coop
2023-08-06T15:36:11Z
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@strypey oops flaming here ..Those actors have the de facto power to mobilise and further shape the tech as a system of practice, regardless of which other bit players are also getting some small 'hobby' benefit.Who's going to sue a big bad dominant actor equipped with expensive lawyers? Liberal legalism isn't a real freedom. Its freedom to be fucked by the players with hired muscle aka capital and wage labour.Flame off.@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT8e53y2tt34e6vGi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:17:28Z
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@mike_halesI think it's a both/and. As Doctorow argues in The Internet Con, the tech industry is not exceptional. The DataFarms and other corporate tech horrors are produced by the same neoliberal political-economic conditions that produced Monsanto and Nestle. Until we address this (eg with platform co-ops), licenses that encode protection for software freedoms are a rearguard action.(1/?)@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYT94X0oknpJHnFZ32 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:22:21Z
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@mike_halesIn fact, Stallman says this is why he launched the GNU Project and wrote the GPL as a copyleft license. He considered going to Congress and lobbying against proprietary software. But he was smart enough to see that at the time, he would have been pissing into the political wind.So instead he set out to create a proof-of-concept, for the notion that exclusive ownership and control isn't necessary to create good software. In fact it does the opposite.(2/?)@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTAbLKvHiVuaJrcSO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:39:33Z
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@mike_halesBut I think it's worth noting that Stallman's rearguard action has been remarkably effective. Without it, most servers and handhelds (except for iThings) would be running an OS controlled by Microsoft. Thanks to GNU and the GPL, Linux (the kernel) became available. So we have a plethora of GNU/Linux-based server OS, all of them vastly superior to WindBloats, and a plethora of handheld OS based on Android/Linux, and more, recently, mobile GNU/LInux.(3/?)@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTAp43ILP3v25A3d2 by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-06T23:41:58Z
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@strypey Stallman performed a brilliant political/legal hack in GPL.@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTB6ALMCrLNT3lRwm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:45:05Z
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@mike_halesSo now tech corporations are looking for ways to exclude purely Free Code software from their platforms (beginning with shoehorning DRM into the HTML standards with EME). They're forcing hardware makers to make it harder to replace nonfree OS with Free Code, pushing "Web Environment Integrity" etc.Is using free licensing enough to defend ourselves from these new proprietary tech strategies? As Stallman would say, it's necessary but not sufficient.(4/4)@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTC0Ya7HEParDYbJo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:55:16Z
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@bhaugen> Stallman is fine with capitalists using copy-left software, no?I wouldn't speculate on how he *feels* about it. But it is an unavoidable consequence of encoding protection of software freedoms for *everyone*, yes. It even allows Free Code software to be used by people whose politics we dislike even more than capitalists. But I strongly believe the pros of this outweigh the cons, for reasons I explore in detail here:https://strypey.dreamwidth.org/3233.html(1/2)@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTCDcnauMTrha5nma by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-06T23:57:37Z
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@bhaugenIt's also worth noting that capitalists' use of Free Code makes it harder for them to lock people into abusive systems, and easier for our movements to code up replacements for them. Indymedia, for example, would not have been possible without Free Code software.(2/2)@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTCdb4bwij5saR7pY by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T00:02:17Z
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@bhaugenIt's also worth noting that Free Code licenses don't give capitalists the same laissez-faire use that publishing source code into the public domain does. Strong copyleft licenses even less so. So capitalists' use of Free Code makes it harder for them to lock people into abusive systems, and easier for us to take the body of Free Code software they've used, and code up replacements.(2/3)@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTCpwhjLfZGRRcfVw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T00:04:36Z
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@bhaugenFree Code also makes it easier for our movements to set up replacements for corporate systems. Take Indymedia, for example, as a proposed replacement for highly centralised news media controlled by corporate gatekeepers. The IMCs and the coordinating platforms erected for communication and cooperation between them, would not have been possible without Free Code software.The fediverse is also a prime example.(3/3)@mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTDJqBa9HSyucqAnw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T00:10:00Z
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@mike_hales> Who's going to sue a big bad dominant actor equipped with expensive lawyers?The EFF, the Software Freedom Law Centre and the Software Freedom Conservancy were set up specifically to do this (amongst other things). Recognising that individual developers can't easily do this by themselves. I believe the FSF have done it too, and possibly CreativeCommons.@bhaugen @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTHpO4QcG7CnUnBwG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T01:00:30Z
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@dinosaur> we don't yet know the best way to balance trade-offs in P2P architectureI think you'd find that gathering a range of implementers under one roof, following battle-tested IETF processes, would be a better way to establish this than plugging away in isolation. But you do you.(1/2)@bhaugen @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYTI54d6fDOr8WUbwG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T01:03:21Z
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I've been watching the P2P space since the late 90s. The only thing it's produced that gets widely used, is BitTorrent (and BitCoin/ Ethereum and their forks, but not for anything really useful).@dinosaur> i hope we continue reinventing based on what we learnI'm not against this. Have fun! Just don't kid yourself that this alone can produce something that scales beyond a clique of Innovators. As the fediverse is doing right now.(2/2)@bhaugen @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYVFkuVWmFBkMK7pey by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-07T23:46:43Z
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Me:> The only thing the P2P space has produced that gets widely used is BitTorrent... and Git, but almost nobody uses it in the P2P way Linus designed it for. Git-SSB being an honourable exception.@dinosaur@bhaugen @rabble @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYVGN2PvojMLtXgk8u by rabble@mastodon.social
2023-08-07T23:53:22Z
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@strypey @bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire I'm still waiting for neighbourhoods and holochain to come in to existence. There's code, but as far as i can tell, the only way to run it is to build it from source on some weird, nix, layer on top of linux. They've been at it for years, i first heard of holo in 2016.... and I still can't use it, 7 years in to their project. They're not doing waterfall, instead it's glacier flow development...
(DIR) Post #AYVH5u7LWRVbBWOBPc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-08T00:01:43Z
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@rabble> i first heard of holo in 2016.... and I still can't use itFair point. Their vanity license caused me to raise an eyebrow too, especially when it led to Bruce Perens resigning from the OSI after they approved it as an Open Source license. What were your thoughts on that?(BTW I saw you speak at Open Source, Open Society in Welly. Can't remember if we got to speak in person, it was a busy few days!)@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYVHIgSJcysIZuI73Q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-08T00:04:01Z
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@rabble> i first heard of holo in 2016.... and I still can't use itReally? One of my co-op partners was building a project management app on it HoloChain when we met in 2021. He's now doing some work for Neighborhoods.Their vanity license caused me to raise an eyebrow, especially when it led to Bruce Perens resigning from the OSI after they approved it as an Open Source license. What were your thoughts on that?@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire
(DIR) Post #AYVHKrYLL6uXZh9Kgy by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-08T00:04:27Z
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@rabbleBTW I saw your talk at Open Source, Open Society in Welly. Can't remember if we got to speak in person, it was a busy few days!
(DIR) Post #AYVJ2JB0bx0jecW11U by bhaugen@social.coop
2023-08-08T00:15:19Z
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@rabble @strypey @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire We're waiting for https://hrea.io/ and https://github.com/bonfire-networks/bonfire_valueflows.We've seen demos of hREA and Bonfire has a usable test site here: https://campground.bonfire.cafe/
(DIR) Post #AYVJWh2ISzTwLAvf0a by rabble@mastodon.social
2023-08-08T00:28:56Z
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@strypey I don't remember either, it was years ago... anyway, much more recently i moved to Aotearoa.. so we could meet up again much more easily.
(DIR) Post #AYXQTwUhcoW1PSlrFY by rabble@mastodon.social
2023-08-09T00:56:16Z
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@strypey @bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire the acorn project management app seems to actually work and has a slick interface. You know what’s funny and ironic? I kind of want it web hosted in order to use it with my team.
(DIR) Post #AYXVdYNmcrIjINw8cC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-08-09T01:54:05Z
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@rabble> acorn project management app seems to actually workOoh, hadn't heard of it. Thanks for the tip!> I kind of want it web hosted in order to use it with my teamWhat's the interface made with? Maybe you could swap out the back-end?@bhaugen @mike_hales @edsu @bonfire