Post AXG9ld4jbrwMmegI4G by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
(DIR) More posts by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
(DIR) Post #AXBkIeB39w02JhsY1Q by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T16:02:29Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
@Wolven I really need to look into this affirmative action ruling to get an opinion on it... Obviously it **sounds** like a good thing, as affirmative action was never a good way to solve the very real racism problem we have. But my fear is that better solution arent going to replace it so it still leaves a gapping problem.Striking down the loan forgiveness stuff makes sense, we should have always been giving free education to future generations, but forcing loan company's to pay other peoples bills for an otherwise legitimate agreement, no thats just wrong.
(DIR) Post #AXBkfjvzv6pQphqkN6 by SirPaulCouture@noagendasocial.com
2023-06-29T16:06:54Z
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@freemo @Wolven "we should have always been giving free education to future generations"Said on the largest free information sharing platform in human history.What we didn't waste money on is handing out a piece of parchment signed by someone who has no real world experience creating anything of human value.
(DIR) Post #AXBku5UoYFuHl7ybZ2 by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T16:09:29Z
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@SirPaulCouture @Wolven Said on the largest free information sharing platform in human history.Information is not education, particularly when said information is unreliable and requires research, which requires education to do so effectively (flat earthers are a prime example of information without education). What we didn’t waste money on is handing out a piece of parchment signed by someone who has no real world experience creating anything of human value.I could care less about diplomas and degrees. I’d be more than happy to reform the way we look at school and have people take courses piecemeal and int he end have employers evaluate their skills, not a piece of paper.
(DIR) Post #AXBlHNDioqEZOH5LOq by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T16:13:27Z
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@Wolven Disagreement is always welcome, your opinion is noted and appreciated. Thanks for sharing.You too have a wonderful day.
(DIR) Post #AXC1NqC3boloFlPcsC by amiserabilist@med-mastodon.com
2023-06-29T19:14:02Z
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@freemo @SirPaulCouture @Wolven https://infed.org/mobi/ivan-illich-deschooling-conviviality-and-lifelong-learning/
(DIR) Post #AXC1kmlgViCEI319pQ by freemo@qoto.org
2023-06-29T19:18:11Z
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@amiserabilist @SirPaulCouture @Wolven If you have any points to be made from the article please feel free to make them and cite the article. Otherwise i dont have the bandwidth.
(DIR) Post #AXCGmqwlRZg38qdz5E by amiserabilist@med-mastodon.com
2023-06-29T22:06:41Z
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@freemo @SirPaulCouture @Wolven Many students, especially those who are poor, intuitively know what the schools do for them. They school them to confuse process and substance. Once these become blurred, a new logic is assumed: the more treatment there is, the better are the results; or, escalation leads to success. The pupil is thereby “schooled” to confuse teaching with learning, grade advancement with education, a diploma with competence, and fluency with the ability to say something new.
(DIR) Post #AXFwBsBeeIgXp3XOhk by neekeeteen@mastodon.social
2023-07-01T16:34:45Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@freemo @Wolven just wrote what I had on my mind, they want to nullify the student loans and debts, but who’ll pay for it? and what freaks me out that if you disagree with this - you’re “racist, fascist, far right supporter” etc…
(DIR) Post #AXG8krak3Mz7Yritc0 by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:54:06Z
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@neekeeteen @freemo @Wolven Isn't "who will pay for it" kind of a moot point in the country with the biggest military budget in the world? We had something similar, no new debts, but 100 billion for the military was ok. No further discussion about "who will pay" makes sense after it is established that only what to pay for influences such decisions.
(DIR) Post #AXG8ksHdTtIPhtn9TE by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:55:33Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven No because "the government" isnt the only option paying for it... It could be the company issuing the loan that is shit out of luck and pays for it too. They also might get that money by taxing specific groups or a product (like how we tax gas.@neekeeteen @Wolven
(DIR) Post #AXG8lVdHBMmNkJDU7E by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:55:41Z
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@freemo Affirmative action has its problems, but especially for higher education, it does far more good than harm.Plus, remember, the prestige colleges already have a reverse-affirmative-action system in place called "legacies". There really ought to be a counter-balance.
(DIR) Post #AXG8nAUekQ5KlOyYTo by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:55:58Z
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@freemo Affirmative action has its problems, but especially for higher education, it does far more good than harm.Plus, remember, the prestige colleges already have a reverse-affirmative-action system in place called "legacies". There really ought to be a counter-balance.
(DIR) Post #AXG8xtcnnyjTdEtx0C by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:57:55Z
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@LouisIngenthron If you give advantages based on poverty, not race, you solve both issues...On the one hand so long as racism exists and minorities disadvantaged they will be a larger portion of the group in poverty and thus would get helped.Since its based on poverty then it isnt explicitly racial in nature so address the racism concerns.
(DIR) Post #AXG92gsKdQcvXPS2wS by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-07-01T18:58:45Z
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@freemo @neekeeteen @Wolven Hmm, so it's a different kind of "who will pay for it". Yeah, makes sense to think about this, were the lenders predatory enough to let them have it, should the state pay, ... anyone but the students :-)
(DIR) Post #AXG9Au03ioFMYlyu9Y by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:00:08Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven Im not sure how you can claim a loan for education is predatory...@neekeeteen @Wolven
(DIR) Post #AXG9ld4jbrwMmegI4G by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:06:53Z
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@freemo I did no such thing. I said to consider if. Many things cropped up about predarory loans in america, and i do not know if this (or some of these) is/are one of the cases.
(DIR) Post #AXG9mesuMuVYgVdkWG by lucifargundam@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:07:03Z
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@admitsWrongIfProven @neekeeteen @Wolven Even I have to step in on this one @freemo .It's well-known that young and naive kids have been taking out loans for college that they cannot easily afford to pay back afterwards.Predatory student loans target individuals who will be desperate enough for tuition money to sign whatever comes back there way- only to exacerbate their inevitable debt with additional charges that bring them further from closing the account. Why? Long-term payments. And when said company decides they need the $, they sell the debt to another company.
(DIR) Post #AXG9n2ZEJj1m8QcNBA by LouisIngenthron@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:07:05Z
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@freemo The problem with that is that proving poverty is much more onerous than proving race. That adds paperwork hurdles that have to be jumped, usually not by the applicant themselves, but by their guardians. This phenomenon is responsible for some of the poorest families in our country failing to qualify for free student lunches for their kids.Given that no system is perfect, requiring representation equal to the demographics of the overall population in our most critical institutions seems to be the best step forward we can reasonably expect at this time.But also, on the other side of the equation, even the population of rich kid students shouldn't be homogenously white... it should apply to all, not just the scholarship crowd.
(DIR) Post #AXGADnkxUX9s1DrfHs by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-07-01T19:11:37.770510Z
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yep, exactly this. It's predatory because you're giving 100k+ loans to kids for school and there's no way they know exactly what they want their career path to be for a few more years, and by then they might be financially literate enough to realize it was a huge mistake.Also they refuse to give 100k+ loans to 18 year olds for any other thing which is crazy. If you can give a kid 100k+ for school you can give them 100k+ for a business (provided they produce the business plan, etc). They're almost always denied due to age and having no assets/collateral...
(DIR) Post #AXGAIenWE93TgKNSZE by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:12:53Z
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@lucifargundam @freemo Ah, an answer from someone who knows stuff, much better than me non-american rattling on about vague concepts! And i wonder what would happen if the underlying philosophy of "You can't just cancel debts" were applied to everyone equally ;-)
(DIR) Post #AXGAdUzvrEfVMy7cI4 by admitsWrongIfProven@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:15:32Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@feld I love your username (the long one). And thx for speaking up with inside-the-country knowledge!
(DIR) Post #AXGBsYB6Pr0tWx5UPo by freemo@qoto.org
2023-07-01T19:30:31Z
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@feld You cant gt the loan if your under 18, collecge loans are either signed for by your parents or you are over 18 when you get them (as most people are when they go to college)@neekeeteen @Wolven @admitsWrongIfProven @lucifargundam
(DIR) Post #AXGCjx36g0xK0xoM8O by feld@bikeshed.party
2023-07-01T19:39:44.441395Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Correct, there is no disagreement on this point.
(DIR) Post #AXGJy2gLEKK9DYpSl6 by kissake@qoto.org
2023-07-01T21:01:09Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@freemo @admitsWrongIfProven @neekeeteen @Wolven There may be some misconception here. I'm pretty sure that the loans that are in question in the court case are loans from the federal government. The only private organizations involved as far as I'm aware are servicing (providing services around the loans like answering questions and collecting payments for the government) the loans. While they would have less business if the loans were forgiven, that isn't the same thing as "paying for it", and they aren't "issuing" the loan.As far as predatory behavior, there were definitely some predatory "schools" like ITT Tech or or DeVry University; is that what you're referencing?