Post AWyH2YWGWFPsLmcjTM by tchambers@indieweb.social
(DIR) More posts by tchambers@indieweb.social
(DIR) Post #AWyH2XaTz5CBSZaaPI by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T00:15:38Z
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With the upcoming #meta #Project92 Fediverse service, there has been a, well, *robust* discussion of how to avoid threats looming. Those advocating mass-preemptive defederation make three cases for it. ➡️ To avoid data mining ...which Defederation does virtually zero to avoid any big tech entity scraping all the fedi public social graph today - Want proof? see: https://is.gd/q8U2pvThe next argument is about poorly moderated P92 user posts and ad spam.Which I'll discuss next.🧵 1 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2YWGWFPsLmcjTM by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T00:22:13Z
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The 2nd argument for preemptive defederation: ➡️ To defend against poorly moderated P92 users & ad spam.We have all the tools for that now - as users & as admins, and deal with exactly this from poorly moderated servers EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. And if we find ANY server not responsive THEN we block. Protecting our users is our 1st job but we have all we need - WITHOUT first strike defederation.The third argument I'll look at next is to avoid #EEEE - "Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish."🧵 2 of X
(DIR) Post #AWyH2ZFzmDzodc1Fke by smallpatatas@mstdn.patatas.ca
2023-06-23T00:27:15Z
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@tchambers there is no question that meta is incapable of properly moderating their platforms. You are telling your users that someone(s) must get hurt before you will do anything. Moderation is never simply reactive, there is also a pro-active element to it as well. And we have overwhelming evidence that federation with meta will cause harm to people commonly targeted for harassment and abuse. This breaks the first item of the Mastodon Server Covenant.
(DIR) Post #AWyH2a4Kl4GJ9jZSDI by smallpatatas@mstdn.patatas.ca
2023-06-23T01:02:46Z
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@tchambers @tchambers Folks are not protected if you federate with an instance run by a company that is incapable of moderating its platform.Either you're saying that people will be hurt, or you're telling people that to be safe they shouldn't use your server. An open network means that people should be safe throughout the space. Here's your forewarning on what is to come. Now that you are armed with this information, please do the right thing for your users. https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy33ww/facebook-anti-trans-harassment
(DIR) Post #AWyH2aKHnl1RxD2C4u by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T03:10:23Z
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Wrapping up: This isn't a new fight. OSS devs have been here before. Many times. And won.We have all the tools, development energy & moderation tech to protect our people we need - without first strikes.We have past #OSS & open tech fights to learn off of & as @atomicpoet & @erlend have argued well: being open - if they are - is a first crack in #Meta's armor.We may get a window - if we both protect our people & don't act insularly - to run an #EEE campaign reaching out to THEIR users.
(DIR) Post #AWyH2appuSG9X3nOFs by ArdainianRight@detroitriotcity.com
2023-06-23T04:03:35.276479Z
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@smallpatatas @tchambers Imagine being hurt by words, faggot.
(DIR) Post #AWyH2bkuUFugO4UyDQ by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T00:27:12Z
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The 3rd argument for defederation:➡️ To defend against being Embraced, Extended, and Extinguished. This is a real risk, and others point to Google and Facebook and XMPP, or Google and RSS Google reader. Where a big entity takes over, then rug pulls or extends an open standard slowly into an non-standard, non-interoperable functionally siloed service.This is a real risk. But you don't - and can't - defend against this by defederation. I'll explain why next. #EEEE 🧵 3 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2bn2MLcAUfUfWy by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T00:39:07Z
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To the argument that we should defederate to avoid #EEE: We cannot avoid Meta's embrace of the open ActivityPub standard. Even if the entire existing Fedi pre-blocked them. IG has 1.6 BILLION users. in one day just on their own they will be the size of the current Fedi's MAU and grow from there.Instantlly the biggest ActivityPub entity on the planet. With or without a mass block.So if we can't stop the embrace, what can we do to combat the second E?Will cover that next.4 of N🧵
(DIR) Post #AWyH2bznatp58FSrQG by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:59:38Z
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Last post on defending against #EEE: Until we get a robust test suite for #ActivityPub the risk is Meta or others "extend it" or the converse, support "almost all of it," but miss crucial bits.Dave Winer mentioned once that Google leaving bits of RSS support out of Google Reader hurt the effort for years. (But it recovered and #EEE failed over time)I'm working with a number of stakeholders now to see if we can build out an alpha of just this. Is crucial work. Want to help? DM me.🧵 9 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2cgL2jqnGBMpjE by smallpatatas@mstdn.patatas.ca
2023-06-23T01:14:27Z
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@tchambers Actually, Tim: you have not shown yourself capable of doing so.When I was on your server, I informed you three (3) times about the fact that you had incorrectly entered the poa dot st domain into your blocklist. I even posted it on the patreon page, since I was a paying supporter at the time.The second and third time I let you know, you told me that you had taken care of it. Did you? Here's a current screenshot of your blocklist. As you can see that domain is prefixed by http: but without the two forward slashes. I told you exactly what the problem was. Now that I run my own server I know that this can be done in seconds from the web interface. That instance, which is on basically every blocklist in this network, is not blocked on your server. It's one of the reasons I started looking elsewhere.
(DIR) Post #AWyH2eKQv9W6Mp8MrY by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:17:08Z
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So, to avoid the "Extend" of #EEE, which is the real risk point, what can be done since mass defederation won't protect ActivityPub? This isn't a new battle. Tons of efforts to #EEE open tech fail. As @emc2 has put well #OSS software has fought and won this battle many times. As @davew the godfather of RSS & Podcasting said: "Podcasting has withstood countless attacks like this, and has always been left standing as unsullied as ever." We know how to win this. Some tactics next.🧵 5 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2gBe0nfu892NRQ by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:31:55Z
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First: Innovate and outcompete. Esp where you can do things giants can't. We can always outcompete Meta at being more private, ad-free, better moderated, more open. We need to compete on UX.XMPP may have been hurt by FB and Google's rug pull but my recollection was more like this user when asked why did XMPP die and SMPT thrived?Fedi clients, server software will need to just be better - something #OSS devs have done for years. And we can too.🧵 6 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2gChwqWeBRXE6C by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:42:00Z
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What else can defend against the "Extend" of #EEE? Having a broad set of OTHER allies inside the tent of stakeholders. Growing the base of those who "embrace" it to even out the power dynamics. And btw, defederating developers PREMPTIVELY before they launch a single activtypub server, is the fastest way to make OTHER potential developers run for the hills. (Actually to run to Bluesky)The last thought for the night on this is what I think is the most important. Up next.🧵 7 of N
(DIR) Post #AWyH2i76qdEg6evmeO by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:43:01Z
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BTW, re-reading this Hacker News post on XMPP reminds me of some claims against the Fediverse. Things we should be fixing and improving at light speed. (And I think are being upgraded fast)
(DIR) Post #AWyH2iYPD94PTJhaCG by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-23T02:49:55Z
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Last thought on #EEE: We need to support our standards makers STAT. The best defense against "extend" is a clear line of what we are defending.#ActivityPub has needed a robust "test suite" to test compliance for a while & good efforts were unfinished. They need to be picked up at warp speed. To see an example of his working for other tech see: https://webmention.rocks/The creator of the Wordpress ActivtyPub plugin said that he *wished* he had this.More on why in my last post next.🧵 8 of N
(DIR) Post #AWzPILtEEl7IbZMrLs by ChristiJunior@detroitriotcity.com
2023-06-23T17:10:45.433174Z
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@ArdainianRight @smallpatatas @tchambers Hahahahahahahaha How The Fuck Is Cyber Bullying Real Hahahaha Nigga Just Walk Away From The Screen Like Nigga Close Your Eyes Haha