Post AWt8df2FORtT76SGxM by tchambers@indieweb.social
(DIR) More posts by tchambers@indieweb.social
(DIR) Post #AWs57u1xbyHNKkWfNg by atomicpoet@calckey.social
2023-06-19T17:56:07.699Z
2 likes, 2 repeats
People are asking me what I think about #Meta joining the Fediverse. To review what I've said elsewhere, it's important to acknowledge five important realities:1. Meta can use ActivityPub, and nothing can be done about it. Fediblock doesn't prevent Meta from using ActivityPub because ActivityPub is an open protocol. 2. A mass Fediblock (Gab style) is not happening. The big servers aren't doing it. And if the big servers aren't doing it, the medium and little servers don't have the power to enforce a mass Fediblock.3. The majority of people on the Fediverse don't care -- and many of them even want to connect with Meta. I know, this might surprise you. But based on my observations, most people won't be leaving mastodon.social because it federates with Meta.4. Even if the majority of Fediverse servers blocked Meta, that would still mean that certain unsavoury servers (which shall be unnamed) will likely connect with Meta -- and I certainly don't want those servers to be the face of the Fediverse for people who use #P925. Even if Meta pulled a Truth Social and didn't connect to the Fediverse, that does not prevent them from sucking up all that data from ActivityPub -- seeing how that data is, in fact, public. Am I saying there's no value in blocking Meta? Not at all. Yes, block them if you don't want to send and receive messages to P92. Will that prevent Meta from seeing your messages? As I said, no, not at all. But at least that's data you haven't directly given to Meta (unless you're allowing RSS on your server). And it will also mean you won't receive messages from Meta -- if that's your purpose, blocking is good.Now I've come to believe that when Meta joins the Fediverse, the Fediverse will largely be divided into three factions:Faction 1: Servers that federate with MetaFaction 2: Servers that don't federated with Meta, but federate with servers that federate with MetaFaction 3: Servers that don't federate with Meta, and don't federate with any server that federates with MetaFactions 1 and 2 will probably go on their merry way. It's Faction 3 that I believe will die because it's ultimately unfeasible. "But Chris!" some might say, "There's that pact!"Unless all those servers in that pact are only federating via white labeled servers who've signed that pact, the pact is useless. Such white labeling would mean that every server that federates must be manually reviewed. And it means that every new server that joins the Fediverse will be federated with Faction 1 and Faction 2 before they're federated with Faction 3. Which ultimately means that Faction 3 gets tinier and tinier, especially as churn occurs, and those users don't get replaced by newcomers.In the end, what will federation via white label achieve? Not a whole lot, except make certain people believe they have done something substantial to fight Meta when they haven't. At a certain point, we have to accept reality: Meta will use ActivityPub, and most people using the Fediverse will talk to them. So am I waving the white flag?Not at all. What's important to acknowledge here is that it's not we, the Fediverse, who have conceded. It's Meta. It's Meta who have given up ownership of their own corporate-owned network effect in order to join the Fediverse.Despite this concession from Meta, I'm not happy about them joining the Fediverse.However, there's another consideration: for people who use Meta. it's an incremental improvement over what they had before -- which was no federation. Again, less worse is better than worse. If the world is slightly better -- even if it's not ideal -- it's still better.Do I want people to use Meta-owned social networks? Not at all.Here's where I disagree with 99% of people panicking about Meta: I believe ActivityPub will ultimately be Meta's own undoing. And I want to hasten this undoing 😊
(DIR) Post #AWsyvmwfiuv5JiquVU by Andres@mastodon.hardcoredevs.com
2023-06-19T18:07:21Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@atomicpoet Fair enough, that is a very admin / owner point of view.From an user perspective. I have been cyber bullied back in Facebook. The moderation team did nothing, and you know I'm not the only one, many people that comes here escaping from harassment are being told "just give them another chance to bully you, then we will ban them", but why? why are we waiting for it to happen?Others have said "we can teach them about moderation" and yourself talking about "we can undermine them"
(DIR) Post #AWsyvp101nZNjitOWu by Andres@mastodon.hardcoredevs.com
2023-06-19T18:09:22Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet What? We are risking peoples safe place because we are selfish?I'm not federating with that awful place, not helping them in any way and not undermining anything because I don't care about them.
(DIR) Post #AWt8df2FORtT76SGxM by tchambers@indieweb.social
2023-06-19T18:03:58Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet Every point here is well-reasoned and based on accurate data. As usual. 👍
(DIR) Post #AWt8dfwxzZGPx0zZMe by mjf_pro@hachyderm.io
2023-06-19T18:12:16Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@tchambers @atomicpoet I keep thinking back to my experience with Compuserve in the late 90s. They were a walled garden (and a good one!) ahead of when w3 blew the door off the Internet. They eventually found themselves forced to “let my people go” out to explore what the web had to offer, so they built their http on-ramps and tried to figure out how to make money from it while still keeping their legacy audience on board.
(DIR) Post #AWt8ditB471148F5NI by mjf_pro@hachyderm.io
2023-06-19T18:14:02Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@tchambers @atomicpoet It never worked, and eventually the diversity and accessibility of the web won out. And it sounds a *lot* like what Meta may be walking into. When you give people inside your walls a means of accessing the world beyond them, often times they leave and won’t come back.
(DIR) Post #AWt8dvvmZjp7VyYqjw by Grant_M@mastodon.social
2023-06-19T18:14:00Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet This is the best explainer I’ve read thus far. I’m beginning to like the idea of everyone within the federation waiting the short time it will take for so many violations of Fediverse rules to occur that a proper consensus fediblock will happen. Hopefully many will offboard from Zuckerberg and come here after getting a taste of freedom.
(DIR) Post #AWt8gtihFigZWfqztA by notroot@bostonsocial.online
2023-06-19T18:38:30.121Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet@calckey.social "I believe ActivityPub will ultimately be Meta's own undoing."YES, this exactly. This is exactly what I think, as well.Meta must project "Behemoth" because its investors demand it. But we Fedizens don't have to buy their propaganda! Frankly, I think Meta is in the weakest position it's ever been in, after the spectacular mega-flops of VR and Web 3.0. *They need us more than we need them.*
(DIR) Post #AWt8iOOMhSgIwY3Zbs by suldrew@xoxo.zone
2023-06-19T20:53:56Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet let them be the ones embraced and extinguished
(DIR) Post #AWtYQvgglboZnrxe1A by VideoGamesArt@arvr.social
2023-06-20T18:16:11Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet Americans will die because of their dull liberism and the world with them. Even the Fediverse will die if they don't put limits to the dimensions of servers and the number of servers in one federation. Plus, you need a sort of anti trust, when you see a corpo with too much influence on the fediverse, you are meant to limit it. Otherwise you're replicating the inequality of the real world
(DIR) Post #AWtYQwPM5XXm2OrJdg by atomicpoet@calckey.social
2023-06-20T18:23:57.280Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@VideoGamesArt@arvr.social So long as ActivityPub is open -- which will be forever -- then the Fediverse cannot die.
(DIR) Post #AWtYQx33hvIq1XR1Wa by Bigou@social.marud.fr
2023-06-20T18:53:25.125Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet@calckey.social @VideoGamesArt@arvr.social Even ifit's only techically opensource?
(DIR) Post #AWtYQxoCsd16NlUg0u by atomicpoet@calckey.social
2023-06-20T19:10:40.398Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@Bigou@social.marud.fr @VideoGamesArt@arvr.social It’s not “only” technically open source. It’s open source.
(DIR) Post #AWtYQyTgOQC4SOtnf6 by Bigou@social.marud.fr
2023-06-20T19:15:24.222Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atomicpoet@calckey.social @VideoGamesArt@arvr.social In theory, but if the most popular services use proprietary extension to an open protocole, to the point of making it unusable without said extensions, is it still realy opensource?Of course, there is no risk of this happening as soon as Meta join. But in the long run…
(DIR) Post #AWtYQzADqGDmaKnly4 by atomicpoet@calckey.social
2023-06-20T19:20:49.385Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@Bigou@social.marud.fr @VideoGamesArt@arvr.social A protocol is a gentlemen’s agreement on interoperability. If someone reneges on that agreement, then they are no longer using the protocol. They are using something else. To claim that it’s possible for #ActivityPub to be closed is not only ludicrous poppycock, it’s bullshit.