Post AWmqUXgGP6xRZeunAm by leo@social.synergetic-design.com
(DIR) More posts by leo@social.synergetic-design.com
(DIR) Post #AV7QrLyqPO3RI0Iqqe by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-04-28T18:20:23.539385Z
4 likes, 4 repeats
This is my lates effort to nail this with as few words as possible:"The hype about battery driven electric vehicles is at an all-time high. The critics of the technology are actually adding to the hype, by distracting from the most important fact: conversion rate.Diesel fuel, in the tank of a generator, has a shelf-life of about 3 months. The stainless-steel fuel tank is one of the cheapest to make from the most abundant materials on this planet. The tank has practically infinite cycle life - it can be drained and refilled an infinite number of times.When you burn a fresh tank of diesel to generate electricity and charge battery-based EVs (bbEV), then park all those bbEV for 2 months - their charge will leak away, and your conversion rate will drop below 1%. Doing the same with trucks - filling them up then parking them for 2 months - the conversion rate will remain above 99%.From this point forward things get much worse for the bbEV. A stainless-steel fuel tank, a fuel pump and a timer belt cannot be compared to the balancing circuits and the electrochemical cells (the battery). The gap in the cost, the technology and the talent required to make, repair and reuse is just too great.The deathblow to the bbEV comes from the fact that the battery is ruined after a few thousand cycles, while the fuel tank, the pump, the belt last indefinitely."
(DIR) Post #AV7hq7mzNs3GCul2OW by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2023-04-28T21:32:00.451021Z
0 likes, 3 repeats
@FourOh-LLC The "death blow" you refer to and the "few thousand cycles" is missing some math.If the average cycle life of a LiFePo4 pack is 3000 (CCL),and the distance potential (DP) for a full charge is 400 miles, Then CCL * DP = 1,200,000 miles.The running gear will wear out before the battery does.The real question regarding EVs, when climate cult nonsense, and change haters fear mongering is removed, is:Does the entire life cycle equation, including mining, refining, construction, etc of the EV paradigm impact the environment less than the entire life cycle equation of the petroleum paradigm, AND is there a greater return on investment to energy output at the end of the entire cycle?And the truth is, NO ONE is answering this question. Everyone has a political, profit centered, or cultural preference motive in their approach.Data doesnt lie, people do. And right now, everyone seems to be lying.@gabriel
(DIR) Post #AV7kzlIa9pA9DFp248 by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-04-28T21:53:16.651857Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
I purposely not including any math, because there is enough difference between designs to not make it any useful.I am also not arguing any math offered - although I doubt most designs use LiFePo, they use Lithium. It matters not in the least though.If you are an engineer, and you understand energy conversion, you know the answer to this. The larger the battery, the more cells are connected, the more difficult to balance the system. In an ideal world each cell would follow the optimal curves for charge, discharge, bleeding, capacity loss, internal resistance, yada, yada.All these engineering bickering is a distraction.What needs to be established is that you do not prematurely burn a perfectly safe and stable fuel with months of shelf-life (diesel) to store electricity in a high-cost, highly unstable, low energy density, profusely bleeding container (chemical batteries).There is no marketing spin that would explain this away.@leo
(DIR) Post #AV7kzlzTaLTRMHtHvM by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-04-28T21:57:49.642473Z
1 likes, 2 repeats
You want radical, new, progressive way of thinking about energy and Green?**Generating electricity should be delayed until its needed - do not try to store it!**Do not argue the type of fuel, efficiency, and other factors until you fully understand and embrace that one idea.
(DIR) Post #AV7kzmWRblqT0XJcJM by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2023-04-28T22:07:22.051508Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FourOh-LLC @gabriel @leo Why would I want that? Only weird obsessive people with no outside life meaning want that. Plus, telling people what they can and cant do, can and cant argue is for retards. And while retards are fun a parties, they aren't great conversationalists.
(DIR) Post #AV7lI61toqP4illGPw by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-04-28T22:09:32.517997Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
You have entirely derailed this conversation.People sometimes do this because they have nothing left to contribute. I am not sure why you did that, I am not going to guess.@atyh
(DIR) Post #AV7lI6vuSbCrWTxzii by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2023-04-28T22:10:40.756499Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FourOh-LLC @gabriel @leo Oh im sorry...Were we on a train?Are you the Conductor?Can I blow the train horn???
(DIR) Post #AV7o0Hkln8pvjPwpUG by bonifartius@qoto.org
2023-04-28T22:41:07Z
1 likes, 0 repeats
@atyh @gabriel @FourOh-LLC >If the average cycle life of a LiFePo4 pack is 3000 (CCL),and the distance potential (DP) for a full charge is 400 miles,Then CCL * DP = 1,200,000 miles.i don't think that's how batteries behave. they wear out badly with less than ~20% and more than ~80% charge. they can hold less charge at the end of their lifetime. probably more problems i don't know of.> The running gear will wear out before the battery does.probably, a diesel tank will likely outlast the engine too ;)i agree on the other points.
(DIR) Post #AV7rP5P399QaWuJ2Ce by CapitalB@noagendasocial.com
2023-04-28T23:19:17Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
Exactly. Do not waste ofc.However:My country runs elec on hydro and nuclear. And import/export bc of pumped storage and dumb decisions. We would have to shut down in winter if this use when produced would be the norm. I dont want this. 200 years ago it did not shut down either. Wood was collected to stay warm and mend domestic infrastructure. They made a unfathomable effort to do this. Cities worked.I think even the net would have to go down for a month or two to save energy. Just "lol"
(DIR) Post #AV7s0I0LG1RWKLUNU0 by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2023-04-28T23:25:53.439756Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@bonifartius @gabriel For lifepo4 at least, if you stay between 80/20 life cycle is around 5000. 3000 is more car, heavy amp pull, high amp rapid charge. Its the heavy amp draw, and the lack of regular balancing (other than a bms) that kills them faster.Though, i built a home storage battery out of used 180aHr LifePo4 cells that came out of a delivery vehicle. They werent suited anymore for that kind of use, but for slow charge, and slow drain tiny house power use, they have worked for 4 more years so far.
(DIR) Post #AV8J2zlAFG8dNBu8XI by daniel@campduffel.social
2023-04-29T04:29:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@atyh @gabriel @bonifartius I remember doing the math for lead/acid batteries. If I had a huge bank, didn't discharge but 5-10%, and performed a little maintenance, they would last almost 100 years.
(DIR) Post #AV8KZGy1u4QTxhsRZw by atyh@pleroma.atyh.cc
2023-04-29T04:45:59.775254Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@daniel @gabriel @bonifartius lead acid doesnt get much love because of the max 50% discharge thing.And the fact that they need to be ventilated to the outside. But you can rebuild them and maintain them, and they last for a long long time if well maintained.
(DIR) Post #AWmqUXgGP6xRZeunAm by leo@social.synergetic-design.com
2023-04-28T20:51:00Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@FourOh-LLC It is obviously better to reduce time and space between the site of production of electricity and the site of use but this is not enough to answer the question, it is just a small part of the whole design. The kind of energy you use imply other technologies (like filters, for instance) and induces effects (including long-term ones), it is necessary to take everything into account.
(DIR) Post #AWmqUZJeKA3ae6LlCa by timo21@mastodon.sdf.org
2023-06-17T13:48:59Z
0 likes, 1 repeats
@leo @FourOh-LLC Yes, a whole system comparison of energy sources starts with comparing raw material extraction, transportation, processing, use, waste products, & effect on humans. I'm sure that analysis exists for electric vs fossil somewhere. I agree just taking parts of the process to compare is misleading. (I happen to be familiar with such analysis comparing coal vs. nuclear, & nuclear wins every time vs coal, even considering the effect on humans. That's how bad coal is. )
(DIR) Post #AWn5JuodXxeVSADqRk by FourOh-LLC@pkteerium.xyz
2023-06-17T18:30:28.628065Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
The only power-plant where diesel-electric conversion currently practical is the railway engine. The diesel drives the dynamo drives the DC motors. All on the same frame, electricity is consumed in the instant it was generated.However, I brought this up to see if the topic is going to change fact-based to opinions about the "environment". Because in my experience it always does. CO2 is evil, we need to reduce our carbon footprints, yada yada endlessly.