Post AWUioPDU7cT3lm8Opc by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
(DIR) More posts by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
(DIR) Post #AWUWga5ebwZhj8yScS by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-07T16:47:20Z
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I cannot believe all the (apparently) men coming out of the woodwork on that listserv to say, yes, it is troubling if we cannot criticize this thing. And NONE of them notice that nobody said criticism isn't allowed. And NONE of them notice that only one email in the initial chain actual presented editorial critique. The rest were just an open forum of petty jibes.And seriously, all men so far. Who are apparently incapable of seeing the (so far all) women's perspectives. This is exhausting.
(DIR) Post #AWUWgb6OqelWrkKZQ8 by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-07T19:14:32Z
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Watching this whataboutist path from "criticism" to "THIS FORUM BETTER LET PEOPLE CRITICIZE" is honestly horrible and so dispiriting. Shades of Gamergate, in a way.But on the plus side, Evelyn McManis is my hero for the day. Her direct, no-bullshit email perked me right up. 🥰
(DIR) Post #AWUWgblAP5NKuBP7xo by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-07T20:25:01Z
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"THREATS"?! What the fuck is even happening with these men? YES, your rudeness will be remembered! That is not a threat! That is a reminder of how your professional colleagues will remember you in future! W. T. F.(And you're damn right I remember every guy who's pitched a raging tantrum/bigotry fest on that list, and I keep them in mind in terms of my business.)
(DIR) Post #AWUWgcaZJyUZTbSB5E by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-07T20:32:10Z
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I hate (I. HATE.) that I am biting back every possible response to that listserv mess, because some of the people involved are or work at big names in the field. And despite all my self-promises to draw lines, I have to maintain collegial relations with these people and institutions or I might as well leave the field entirely.Which is on my mind all the time, and which some of these men (seriously, still just men) do not seem to get.
(DIR) Post #AWUWgdKeYdM5mX0yum by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-07T20:35:29Z
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They are really going to do it. They (all men) are going to completely ignore the snarky comments of yesterday's thread and focus the conversation entirely against the people (all women) who didn't like those snarky comments.I have never disliked the rare bookish world more than right now.
(DIR) Post #AWUWge1Xz9fNvZ5Em0 by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-08T19:07:57Z
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I feel like I am losing my mind (or being gaslit) watching this listserv nonsense. These men (STILL ONLY MEN) clearly truly believe that the "pearl-clutching" is all on their opponents' side. And that the "thoughtful criticism" (reminder: the OP put NO CRITICISM in his first email) is actually being presented well and in a helpful way. They have turned it into an existential battle for the listserv and don't realize how many of us are fighting an existential battle to last in the field.
(DIR) Post #AWUWgei5Qzh63UzD4y by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-08T19:27:27Z
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I honestly hope the mods do NOT respond. Not least because these men keep demanding that they affirm that they're allowed to talk about this stuff.YOU GUYS HAVE NOT STOPPED TALKING ABOUT IT AT ALL SINCE YOU STARTED. You just interpreted women's points that your commentary wasn't been done politely or in the appropriate venue as being told to shut up.It is absolutely bizarre to watch such a raging cliché of gendered communication play out in my Gmail inbox.
(DIR) Post #AWUWgfJfBHkfw2ZDeK by CitizenWald@historians.social
2023-06-08T19:37:32Z
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@aehdeschaine Seeing all this unfold these past 2 days: although I don't know the whole context, I am very sorry to see you having to contend with all this
(DIR) Post #AWUY5kjYH9S3vnCd4S by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-08T19:53:19Z
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@CitizenWald I'm not even personally or professionally involved! I feel for the editors, but truly, I'm sorry for all of us. As one woman pointed out to the insufferables, the point isn't the criticism itself, it's all the younger/newer members watching this and learning uncomfortable lessons. I'm feeling it, and I'm not even new!
(DIR) Post #AWUioOO5CjLpCM5LiC by libroraptor@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T20:21:07Z
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@aehdeschaine @CitizenWald One might reasonably think, "This is what the archives are missing." Under-represented voices and all – imagine how much fun it would be to write a book purporting "To provide a voice to the fragile majority who, despite their strenuous loudness, have for decades felt unheard."
(DIR) Post #AWUioPDU7cT3lm8Opc by aehdeschaine@zirk.us
2023-06-08T21:37:37Z
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@libroraptor @CitizenWald I have to say that I really thought the profession(s) was progressing, but this apparently endless listserv debacle has made me reconsider.
(DIR) Post #AWUioPsxdPe1qPXWTo by libroraptor@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T21:49:38Z
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@aehdeschaine @CitizenWald Not long ago, a certain history department that I was close to (but not a member of) had to establish rules like "No name-calling" for faculty meetings.So much of what we are is shaped by what we study – maybe we need a new trend in the history of people being nice to each other to complement the discipline's trademark obsession with friction, nastiness, weirdness and conflict.
(DIR) Post #AWUioQTTReqrfecgOO by CitizenWald@historians.social
2023-06-08T21:53:25Z
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@libroraptor @aehdeschaine Wow.