Post AWTrc9t5zeBVBMsA5I by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #AWT7P2WPTMF0gJ4H1k by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T03:19:31Z
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WINZ is using MailChimp to send email. Email. A public service agency is paying a private company in the US to send email for it. Seriously? WTF.I've been saying for ages that NZ Post ought to be pivoting into hosting email. Handling large-scale mailouts like this is a classic example of a service they could actually be making money out of, doing the digital equivalent of their traditional business. #NZGovernment #WINZ #MailChimp #NZPost
(DIR) Post #AWT9Sm6MfDKgp1nJ0C by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T03:42:34Z
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@strypey Canada Post used to have an ePost service for things like bills, but they just shut it down. I have no clue about the economics of it all.
(DIR) Post #AWTKuzrgBXon6zaLZ2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T05:50:57Z
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@va2lam> Canada Post used to have an ePost service for things like bills, but they just shut it downIntriguing. I'd like to learn more about this.
(DIR) Post #AWTL7Bfm6pUvCzpVy4 by va2lam@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T05:53:07Z
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@strypey Dunno, try this Toronto Sun article: https://torontosun.com/news/national/canada-posts-epost-service-to-end. I don't know anything of what happened on the inside. I just was using it to receive bills until I wasn't, and noticed that utilities were kind of trying to ignore its going away until the last minute.
(DIR) Post #AWTLABLflrw54Vr5SS by bananabob@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T05:53:42Z
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@strypey Damn right 👍
(DIR) Post #AWTQ7TGRCk75XPvvNY by Br3nda@cloudisland.nz
2023-06-08T06:49:04Z
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@strypey I'd be suprised if any nz company can under cut mail chimp (and gov seems to have full permission to send citizens and tāngatawhenua data to the usa)....
(DIR) Post #AWTQdJwXOYhntcoQ3k by risottobias@tech.lgbt
2023-06-08T06:54:57Z
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@strypey US govt #CISA communications use a third party email subscription company.
(DIR) Post #AWTRdh0piwqTOlYx84 by blakjak@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T07:06:14Z
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@strypey you know it's not just email sending right? It's the system for managing staff access. Campaigns. Metadata associated with email being read. And maintaining deliverability to everywhere, which means reputation etc. Not many places provide all of that aaS.
(DIR) Post #AWTT2Td8iQBl5WrVlg by jimbo@jako.social
2023-06-08T07:21:53Z
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@strypey Haven't we kind of given up on the idea that an individual can host their email? And if there are no individuals hosting it, it will be even more foreign as an idea to host it even with professional resources. The people who choose public services often aren't IT experts and I think a fixed cost service is more likely to win in eyes of a regular person than having a team of experts to host something even if it was cheaper, since the cost of labor is at least somewhat unpredictable.
(DIR) Post #AWTac0gYVbATQBLnDE by zl2tod@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T08:44:31Z
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@strypey Also The Privacy Commissioner and many others.Courts use cmail19.WTF are they teaching people at VUW?
(DIR) Post #AWThdEqq1coVKBh1Ye by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:05:14Z
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The scale of the corporate welfare handed out to foreign tech corporation by our government continues to mystify and infuriate me. I don't know if it's the result of incompetence or conflicts or interest, or even naked corruption (decision-makers accepting "gifts" from corporate PR teams in return for favourable treatment). I don't even know which would be worse.
(DIR) Post #AWTiCWEXOGFRN0bKd6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:11:50Z
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@risottobias> US govt CISA communications use a third party email subscription company.That's hilarious and sad.
(DIR) Post #AWTin75RqcB45snbyi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:18:27Z
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@blakjak> It's the system for managing staff access. Campaigns. Metadata associated with email being readDid you think spelling this out would make me less horrified that WINZ is giving a foreign corporation privileged access to our personal information without our explicit knowledge and consent? If so, I'm afraid you're dead wrong.
(DIR) Post #AWTiyGsFncnVdLwqUC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:20:29Z
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@blakjak> Not many places provide all of that aaSWhy do we need it aaSS? Why can't MSD get funding for an in-house team to provide it, using off-the-shelf Free Code software? Or have the Public Service Commission fund a team to set up a service that way, for all of government?@lightweight
(DIR) Post #AWTkDZI9hkq53MvC9g by blakjak@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T10:34:25Z
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@strypey They're feeding email addresses into a system that they have (presumably) carried out a procurement process and a Certification activity on, with risks assessed and managed to a level their CE is satisfied with.
(DIR) Post #AWTkU60toX4ZAfjO40 by blakjak@mastodon.nz
2023-06-08T10:37:24Z
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@strypey Because govt's job is to do govt things, not to develop and operate large technology stacks?I realise you have NZOSS's agenda (and @lightweight and I have argued this before). I'd love to see a local solution ... if a local builds one and can sell it to Govt then win-win. But TCO and a focus on the mission - and not the prereq's - mean that sometimes it makes sense to simply buy the solution and move on.
(DIR) Post #AWTkWbvI97HOiSJ6yu by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:37:52Z
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@jimbo> Haven't we kind of given up on the idea that an individual can host their email?You may have. Plenty of people still host their own email. But we're not talking about individuals. We're talking about governments. Handing over sensitive personal information about its citizens to foreign actors. This is treasonously incompetent.
(DIR) Post #AWTkpILDAw4nUBLA9Y by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:41:16Z
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@jimboThe ignorance you describe on the part of tech managers may well be part of the problem. But...> a fixed cost service is more likely to win in eyes of a regular person than having a team of experts to host something even if it was cheaper... makes no sense. If you employ an in-house team on fulltime salaries, this is a fixed cost. If you buy and operate server machines in government buildings, those are fixed costs (bandwidth, power supply, hardware cost divided by useful life etc).
(DIR) Post #AWTl3wtJCyrvIsHDMW by stephen@microbe.vital.org.nz
2023-06-08T07:23:24.219950Z
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@strypey IIRC they have a wholly owned subsidiary out in Petone that could be doing this, what used to be Datamail that did direct marketing and bills and so forth. But internally they are using cloud hosted proprietary mail.... as Dave noted, not clear that they would do this pivot in any way other than whitelabelling an offshore service.
(DIR) Post #AWTl3xjQ5EYJuUepaS by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T10:43:35Z
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@stephen> internally they are using cloud hosted proprietary mailThis is a problem that needs to be called out for the gross incompetence that it is, until it's fixed. Not passively accepted a la TINA. Especially if you're talking about NZPost.
(DIR) Post #AWTqnSuVVWnXPaMPQW by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T11:48:10Z
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Me:> WINZ is using MailChimp to send email. Email. A public service agency is paying a private company in the US to send email for it. @zl2tod > Also The Privacy Commissioner and many others.Courts use cmail19Oh the humanity!?! #FacePalm
(DIR) Post #AWTqvRXwSjrtUwbsTg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T11:49:36Z
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@zl2tod > WTF are they teaching people at VUW?Don't know about Vic, but when I was at Massey they were teaching first years C# using MS Visual Studio, and only that. I hated it. Like trying to tie you shoes with oven gloves on.
(DIR) Post #AWTrOEZPmqf7eQ1l5s by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T11:54:48Z
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@blakjak > They're feeding email addresses into a system> It's the system for managing staff access. Campaigns. Metadata associated with email being readPick one.
(DIR) Post #AWTrc9t5zeBVBMsA5I by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T11:57:18Z
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@blakjak > I realise you have NZOSS's agendaI have no agenda but my own and the public interest. The fact that you define basic respect for privacy, consent, and digital sovereignty - the reasons a lot of us are here and not on Titter or FarceBook - as "NZOSS's agenda" tells me everything I need to know about yours. Jog on.@lightweight
(DIR) Post #AWTs96vC2gmFXUZBUe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T12:03:16Z
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@blakjak > govt's job is to do govt things, not to develop and operate large technology stacks?"Govt things" are called public services. When running them depends on "large technology stacks", those too become public services. Letting private companies run them, instead of public agencies, is called privatization, and it's why huge swathes of our public infrastructure are falling apart.@lightweight
(DIR) Post #AWTsAiTJurtqI0IKvo by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T12:03:34Z
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@blakjak> I realise you have NZOSS's agendaI have no agenda but my own and the public interest. The fact that you define basic respect for privacy, consent, and digital sovereignty - the reasons a lot of us are here and not on Titter or FarceBook - as "NZOSS's agenda" makes me wonder about yours.@lightweight
(DIR) Post #AWTsLevRRTFYTYfMtU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T12:05:33Z
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@lightweight Remember how were talking about some NZOSS folks not getting software freedom a decade ago? Seems like the Enspiral folks are not the only ones who still haven't caught up.
(DIR) Post #AWV7KWjQ78vnFAvBs8 by stephen@microbe.vital.org.nz
2023-06-08T19:23:12.942434Z
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@strypey I would guess that few large orgs in NZ, public or private, are self hosting their email these days (and most of those will still be using Exchange), so the peer group that can call out and have an effect will be small. Unfortunately that ship sailed when everyone decided cloud was going to lower their costs.
(DIR) Post #AWV7KXTVLnnJY6Tzhg by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T02:28:03Z
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@stephen> Unfortunately that ship sailed when everyone decided cloud was going to lower their costsI simply don't accept this. It's to akin to saying that the ship of preventing runaway climate change sailed when everyone decided burning fossil fuels was "going to lower their costs". Yes, we're talking about a huge reform of business-as-usual in both cases, if not a social revolution against it. But if we can transition to a post-carbon world, I think we can manage a post-corporate-cloud one.
(DIR) Post #AWVEefTM1bTbp8xRVA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T03:50:12Z
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Me:> privatization is why huge swathes of our public infrastructure are falling apart.@blakjak might dismiss this as an ideological claim, which would be fair. It is. So let me back it up.Look at the history of every govt IT project gone bad, from INCIS to NovoPay. In-house team, or corporate contractor(s)? Now, what about all the in-house IT teams - one in pretty much every public agency - quietly deploying Free Code to serve their agency's. All inefficient screw-ups?@lightweight
(DIR) Post #AWVmuNxoHpqeb1ryLo by KorimakoEcology@ecoevo.social
2023-06-09T05:37:12Z
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@Br3nda @strypey I used it for central government since 2015ish and for local government now. But these were for sharing information/news letters, not any sensitive personal information. Is that what WINZ is doing now?
(DIR) Post #AWVmuOpL4ofNH2uimm by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T10:13:59Z
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@KorimakoEcology> But these were for sharing information/news letters, not any sensitive personal information. Is that what WINZ is doing now?I'm guessing they would claim they're not. But who is a WINZ client, or has a community service card, is sensitive information. Metadata about which outward links a person is clicking can reveal even more sensitive information. @Br3nda
(DIR) Post #AWVncGQZfP27xuFLoe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T10:21:56Z
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@KorimakoEcology > But these were for sharing information/news letters, not any sensitive personal information. Is that what WINZ is doing now?I'm guessing they would claim they're not. But who is a WINZ client, or a Community Services Card holder is sensitive information. Metadata on who clicks which outgoing links can reveal even more sensitive information.@Br3nda
(DIR) Post #AWVoEnFW5KgqlQRkky by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T10:28:54Z
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@KorimakoEcologyYou'd think MSD would have learned something about diligently protecting citizens' personal information, after that kiosk scandal my friend @ira disclosed via @keith_ng:https://www.nbr.co.nz/msd-failure-goes-far-beyond-kiosk-security-glitch-expert/But I guess not :/@Br3nda
(DIR) Post #AWXyPEk46takmiH2wq by ira@mastodon.nz
2023-06-10T11:32:14Z
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@strypey @KorimakoEcology @keith_ng @Br3nda I highly doubt it!
(DIR) Post #AWcOucoeMelgpm2jyq by todb@infosec.exchange
2023-06-12T14:48:04Z
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@strypey @risottobias Wait til people realize the US Government uses private industry to build those cool fighter jets you see in Michael Bay movies.
(DIR) Post #AWdnOb6xrIdYIDOW2q by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-13T06:57:09Z
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@todb> Wait til people realize the US Government uses private industry to build those cool fighter jets you see in Michael Bay movies.Bay movies are just war pron in pop culture drag. It is known ; )@risottobias