Post AWIQ8aZFOnYnjvhmMK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) More posts by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
(DIR) Post #AVdIW7ozl4F5Hp4Nf6 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-05-10T22:30:13Z
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Second-hand clothing charities should really not be so fussy. There are several drop boxes in #Brussels & yet there’s rampant dumping of clothes on the street. I wonder if the people dumping them just could not be bothered to wash them.Some cities have recycling facilities for clothes. The clothes are finely shredded & made back into fabric. AFAIK, Brussels does not have that. Why don’t all clothes go to charity & the charity decide what they sell & send the rest for recycling?
(DIR) Post #AVdIW8p22PrkOE5vMG by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-14T03:18:57Z
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@expat> Why don’t all clothes go to charity & the charity decide what they sell & send the rest for recycling?Two reasons; added labour and added cost. The crux of the problem is that the crucial work of recycling is left to underfunded municipal authorities and charities. Their efforts are a hidden subsidy to the highly profitable businesses involved in manufacturing and retail. Somehow they need to be made to carry the full cost of eco-friendly disposal when their products reach EoL.
(DIR) Post #AVfsvKIoTcDDtvFjxA by expat@mamot.fr
2023-05-15T09:16:22Z
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@strypey That would need to be implemented in a way that compels consumers to recycle. One approach: have the consumer pay a deposit, like with beer bottles. Then refund part of the deposit for items recycled, which would have to be close to the value of the shredded fabric. I wonder if that value is so low that it’s uninteresting for everyone.
(DIR) Post #AVgBHoFXc2YqKIaoe8 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-05-15T09:25:32Z
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@strypey The European approach is often just to mandate recycling. In #Brussels, we must separate plastics, metals & paper and we can get fined if we fail. We can cheat by putting one item in the wrong bag and it goes unnoticed, but if a whole bag is unseparated I think there’s a risk of a fine.
(DIR) Post #AVgBHpBK9CmXDVcxiC by expat@mamot.fr
2023-05-15T09:30:12Z
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@strypey I guess I’m surprised that the value of fabric is so low that the cost of recycling doesn’t pay for itself & justify the value of the product from it. Is it really cheaper to maintain a cotton farm & spend 2700 liters per t-shirt than it is to shred existing cotton?
(DIR) Post #AVgBHpsvX5ezOk1mfw by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T12:42:10Z
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@expat@expat> Is it really cheaper to maintain a cotton farm & spend 2700 liters per t-shirt than it is to shred existing cotton?Yes. The problem is the length of globalized supply chains, and the sweatshop wages paid to many workers in them, which is another hidden subsidy. The costs of gathering, sorting/ cleaning, and transporting EoL clothes to the shredding facility, and the resulting cotton to fabric factories, is higher than farming new cotton and getting it to fabric factories.
(DIR) Post #AVgBHzqSV7cyHywxDU by expat@mamot.fr
2023-05-15T09:38:22Z
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@strypey I think part of the solution could be along those lines- a new color trashbag for clothes and a separation mandate. The effort could easily be funded by taxing retail clothing sellers. It seems retail clothing has quite a high profit margin that could absorb that.
(DIR) Post #AVgBqwYeiLyqEIHpp2 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-05-15T12:48:31Z
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@expat> The effort could easily be funded by taxing retail clothing sellers. It seems retail clothing has quite a high profit margin that could absorb thatThis would be an example of making the clothing industry carry the full cost of eco-friendly disposal when their products reach EoL. Although I would tax the importers, not the retailers. They usually have the lowest costs and the highest profits, and it would help local producers compete against sweatshop-subsidised ones.
(DIR) Post #AWG5JwHUWQDeuo3DgO by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-01T20:24:48Z
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@strypey Interesting related story just emerged: https://www.guardian2zotagl6tmjucg3lrhxdk4dw3lhbqnkvvkywawy3oqfoprid.onion/global-development/2023/may/31/stop-dumping-your-cast-offs-on-us-ghanaian-clothes-traders-tell-eu
(DIR) Post #AWG6NGweFba1pGSH7A by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-01T20:36:45Z
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@expat> Interesting related story just emergedMy browser doesn't know what to do with that link. Got a vanilla version?
(DIR) Post #AWG6nfTVffwtQwPcTA by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-01T20:41:29Z
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@strypey That was the Tor version. This is the clearnet version→ https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/may/31/stop-dumping-your-cast-offs-on-us-ghanaian-clothes-traders-tell-eu
(DIR) Post #AWGSSNNtvxy2Em2cRk by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T00:44:09Z
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"Producers are obliged by EPR [Extended Producer Responsibility] policies to contribute to the disposal of waste generated by their products."#IsabelChoathttps://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/may/31/stop-dumping-your-cast-offs-on-us-ghanaian-clothes-traders-tell-euOMG the EU have environmental regulations the rest of us can only dream of! @expat
(DIR) Post #AWGSpeRKgl7LnHkEdM by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T00:48:24Z
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@expat"Today authorities transport waste from the market to Adepa dump, 30 miles (50km) north of Kantamanto, but they can only handle about 30% of the total clothing waste and the remaining 70% ends up in ditches and drains, leaching dyes into the sea and rivers, and covering beaches with vast tangles of clothing."https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/may/31/stop-dumping-your-cast-offs-on-us-ghanaian-clothes-traders-tell-euThis would be less of an issue is making clothes out of plastic was banned, so all this clothing could be composted, if the material can't be repurposed.
(DIR) Post #AWGvB1JrcEUBYFEGW0 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-02T06:05:56Z
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@strypey Perhaps, but I can’t say it’s that clear-cut.#cottoncons:1. 2700 liters of water to product 1 t-shirt2. necessarily uses farmland & heavily consumes soil nutriants3. highly absorbant of water which encourages people to tumble-dry their clothes (thus copious energy waste)4. dyes leech into the seas & drinking water when dumpedpros:5. naturally resists perspiration bacteria according to Gent university, thus can be worn multiple times between washes
(DIR) Post #AWIL1wtJVCcXB46b20 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T22:30:17Z
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@expat> If microfiber clothes were banned, then how would athletes & cyclists dress?This seems less important to me than the negative environmental impacts plastic has at every stage of its life cycle.* mostly made out of waste (“byproducts") from fossil fuel refining* can only be made in a handful of high-tech facilities, increasing transport costs (and emissions)* not very durable and highly flammable* non-biodegradable, with a half-life in the hundreds or thousands of years(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AWIM6lm8MFZk6XbrX6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T22:42:28Z
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@expat* discarded plastic disrupts and kills wildlife (see the comments about the turtles in the article you linked). Microplastics make up more than 50% of plankton in some parts of the ocean.* chemicals used in plastics (esp. Plasticizers) poison wildlife, and humans, with horrifying effects on reproduction (2/3)
(DIR) Post #AWIMa5qaoHMkkpg5su by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T22:47:41Z
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@expatAs for moisture-wicking, I'm not convinced plastic is the best material for athletics clothing. While it obviously dries faster, it doesn't breathe nearly as well, so there's more trapped sweat that needs wicking away.Putting all that aside, the vast majority of plastic clothing is not made for use in athletics or anything else where it's material properties might be useful.(3/3)
(DIR) Post #AWIOv3U0zjonPaEyXY by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-02T06:19:25Z
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@strypey #microfibercons:1. no bacteria resistence so clothes get stinky fast, thus frequent washing needed2. microplastics leech into the water with every wash sending microplastics to city sewer systems which don’t typically filter microplastics so they go into rivers. (Perhaps non-issue for septic tanks)pros:3. needs no tumble drying; air-dries in an hour; huge+ in the US where all tumble dryers are vented4? do the dyes of plastics leech out? Plastic colors seem to be baked in
(DIR) Post #AWIOv54Z5KeILELg9I by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-02T06:29:48Z
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@strypey If microfiber clothes were banned, then how would athletes & cyclists dress? Moisture-wicking performance is important for comfort (which by side-effect is important for cycling advocacy). We only want cotton clothes in certain cases (e.g. if there’s enough wind to get evaporative cooling effects).Wool is the only natural moisture-wicking material AFAIK & sheep probably could not fill the gap if microfibers were banned.
(DIR) Post #AWIOv7KwfOwLMc1mxU by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-02T06:41:13Z
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@strypey Wouldn’t plastic clothes be even easier to recycle? I mean, you just apply heat and the clothing melts.By comparison, composting would seem to require more effort. Shredding the material would just be the first step. You probably would have to come up with other ingredients (e.g. waste food, leaves, etc) and let that pile sit for a long time before it’s ready to use.
(DIR) Post #AWIOv91WOaaiawxIxc by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T23:13:56Z
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@expat> Wouldn’t plastic clothes be even easier to recycle? I mean, you just apply heat and the clothing meltsThat's not how it works AFAIK. Not all plastics can be recycled, at least not with current technology. It requires high tech facilities, so the plastic has to be collected and transported there. It has to be cleaned of impurities (much harder with clothes than bottles) and ground up into small bits before going into the next stage of recycling.(1/2)
(DIR) Post #AWIPL9pE2OAibublEe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T23:18:41Z
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@expat> composting would seem to require more effortIt would require literally no effect. All those clothes on the beach will break down by themselves if they're not made of plastic. That's not ideal, but still better than if they're plastic.> Shredding the material would just be the first stepThis speeds up the composting process, and helps ensure it's aerobic. But it's not strictly necessary. Clothes made from non-plastic materials could be laid down as mulch layers.(2/3)
(DIR) Post #AWIPoPljq1EISOvae8 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T23:23:59Z
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@expat> You probably would have to come up with other ingredients (e.g. waste food, leaves, etc)Anywhere humans live, there's no shortage of such material needing composting. Anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of what goes into landfill in many places is biodegradable, including clothing (cotton, wool, etc). We need to be running large -scale composting facilities everywhere humans live in large numbers, to redirect that material from waste to fertilizer.(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AWIQ8aZFOnYnjvhmMK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-02T23:27:37Z
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@expat> dyes leech into the seas & drinking water when dumpedSimple solution here is to ban toxic dyes - which are only allowed at all because the workers handling them are foreign and brown - and compost the clothing at EoL.
(DIR) Post #AWSH0UwfSiwnymKIEq by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-07T17:31:40Z
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@strypey You must not have tried it. Woven fibers themselves need not breathe if they are small enough to allow for many uniformly distributed gaps. The difference is night & day if you’re doing an intense workout. This is why when you visit a sporting goods shop almost everything is microfiber; certainly anything touching your skin. There are still some cotton sweat pants & niche items.
(DIR) Post #AWSdZJ1Fzbgq7PTXyi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-07T21:45:13Z
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@expat> You must not have tried itI don't own a car and cycling is my main form of transport. I'm also a veteran procrastinator, so I'm often doing it in a hurry. I've done it with both plastic and organic clothing next to my skin but I prefer the latter, unless the former is baggy enough to breathe through the head hole and armholes. YMMV ; )
(DIR) Post #AWTVBEeTyQyl9FnJ6u by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T07:45:39Z
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@strypey do you sweat? I think it varies from one person to the next. If I don’t sweat, it makes little difference what the fabric is. If I’m wearing cotton & break a sweat the cotton fibers absorb sweat, expand, & the fiber quits breathing as it’s saturated. And because cotton fiber expands to hold the sweat, the gaps between the fibers are smaller. So soggy & non-breathable.
(DIR) Post #AWTqV3p42pTwOI2S24 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T07:56:11Z
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@strypey If it’s extremely hot outside but you have a good amount of wind, the cotton cons become pros. I’ll wear a cotton sweater soaked in water which then promotes evaporative cooling. OTOH, it looks like synthetics have 1-up’d cotton on the evap cooling front as well: https://gearjunkie.com/apparel/polartec-delta-cooling-fabric-review (I’ve not tried that stuff).
(DIR) Post #AWTqV4kqZzhdHV4b68 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-08T11:44:50Z
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@expat You seem way more interested in the details of this than I am. What it comes down to, for me, is what I said earlier:> This seems less important to me than the negative environmental impacts plastic has at every stage of its life cycle
(DIR) Post #AWUNZlHXhdPKp6CynI by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T17:55:18Z
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@strypey It’s important to first understand what it is you’re nixing. When you said point blank plastic clothes should be banned, my 1st thought was for someone to make such a blunt & simple comment must be someone who doesn’t really know the benefits or the consequences of putting X billion people in less comfortable clothes for activities we want people to be doing.
(DIR) Post #AWV0BgumBW8kXb4Ziy by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T18:00:02Z
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@strypey If high-tech microfiber clothes had no benefits then of course a ban would be sensible. But they have no comparable sustainable replacement. So it only makes sense to accommodate their existence. From there, indeed there should be controls to ensure they don’t end up polluting oceans & rivers. There should be controls to ensure washing machine waste water captures microplastics.
(DIR) Post #AWV0BhqCk04rPhwREm by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T18:03:05Z
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@strypey And if all the necessary controls drive up the price, so be it. If that puts the price completely out of the market (doubtful IMO), well then it has the same effect as a ban but without consumers having a valid complaint that they’re being nannied.
(DIR) Post #AWV0BiX6AWO9Yk0h60 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-08T18:15:14Z
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@strypey Cotton has a long list of signficant problems as I pointed out. So a blunt cancellation of microfibers is essentially a mandate to embrace all the problems cotton brings, like countless tumble driers wasting energy & increasing GHG emissions. This problem calls for a scalpel not a sledge hammer.
(DIR) Post #AWV0BjevysFb3KgSwq by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T01:08:05Z
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@expatYour clearly passionate about your plastic athletic clothing, but I encourage you to look again at that list of the downside of plastics, and consider how you'd mitigate them in practice. Eg;* Probably the most important one, how is this plastic going to be produced without fossil fuel refining? We've got a lot of plastic things to replace with our limited ability to produce bioplastics. Is athletic clothing really anywhere near the top of the list? (1/2)
(DIR) Post #AWV4DQOuxAyhihFlmi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T01:53:13Z
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@expat> There should be controls to ensure washing machine waste water captures microplasticsHow? Technical details please. Regulations demanding technically impossible things get done are not going to work. It just leads to creative workarounds like this:https://piped.video/watch?v=AynNsPs9i80(FYI the creator of this video has a strong anti-China that I don't share, but it does have some good examples of the issue I raise above)(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AWV4grqK0IHXEB6vNA by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T01:58:33Z
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@expatWhat's going to happen to this fabric at EoL? If it's not biodegradable, and impractical to recycle (if you disagree, again, I want technical details on how you'd do it), the only option remaining is landfill. That doesn't really make it sustainable, it just makes it invisible until geological instability or sea level rise or something else makes to suddenly and embarrassingly visible again.(3/?)
(DIR) Post #AWV6h13ZwlJDiDVh9E by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T02:20:59Z
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@expat> Cotton has a long list of signficant problemsYou seem to keep making two assumptions on this. One, that current industrial farming of cotton is the only way to produce it, and there's no way to reduce it's footprint. Like any permaculture designer, I'm not convinced. Two, that plastic and cotton are the only things clothing can be made from. What about linen, hemp, kapok, flax, ramie, jute, kenaf, coir, sisal, abaca, plantain, pina, nettle, ramie, silk, wool, leather etc etc?(4/?)
(DIR) Post #AWV6x10LuM9oBTd7qK by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T02:23:52Z
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@expatYou also seem to be ignoring that well-made natural fabrics tend to be much more durable than plastic fabrics. So we wouldn't need to produce anywhere near as much fabric to provide the same amount of clothing over the same period of time. Especially if unwanted clothing is rehomed rather than thrown "away", and fabric is upcycled wherever possible once it's at EoL for its current use.(5/5)
(DIR) Post #AWVKMxUwrmZ4F4dsdE by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T04:54:10Z
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@strypey I think we have 3 choices on fossil fuel: 1. leave it in the ground 2. burn it 3. plastics. The best option is 1 but humanity seems to fail at that. The worst thing you can do with it is burn it to move 1k kg of glass & steel down a road which destroys the resource in exchange for GHG emissions. Plastics are the best use of that resource because they last & can be recycled ~7 times
(DIR) Post #AWVKcCmKKwy5yd2bQ0 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T04:56:57Z
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@strypey I’m not sure I can track that info down. But in short, when I was reading on the research that found plastic clothes were emitting microplastics into waste water when laundering, I think it was that same article or study that said “not all sewage treatment plants filter out microplastics”, which implies that *some are*.
(DIR) Post #AWVKxNvG6BH4cYJm88 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:00:46Z
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@strypey Plastic can be converted back into oil. There are even some youtube videos on how to do that and even cook with that oil. I personally wouldn’t cook with it, but certainly it’s an option to convert it back to oil. I’ve heard plastic can be recycled into plastic around 7 times before the material loses its properties. So maybe after 6 times recycling it could go back to oil.
(DIR) Post #AWVLW1H8IBTuW843ns by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:07:00Z
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@strypey I didn’t know there were so many, but which of those would be suitable for cyclists? Coconut coir is great for a summer mattress but I don’t imagine it being used on a t-shirt. Silk is too warm. I don’t think any of those alternatives appear in sporting goods stores. AFAIK, only cotton, wool & plastic (aka smart wool).
(DIR) Post #AWVM6LQYqR7dRVnO9g by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:13:35Z
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@strypey I was neglecting durability. But now that I think of it, silk is likely the least durable fabric there is. I’ve not seen clothes fall apart as easily as silk. The most durable fabric in existence is aramid (aka Kevlar™). It will protect a motorcyclist sliding along asphalt better than leather. I’ve had cotton tshirts develop holes (not sure why).
(DIR) Post #AWVXY3N6fTZr32awmO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T07:21:36Z
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@expat> Plastics are the best use of that resource because they last & can be recycledAs I think I already mentioned, plastics are only affordable because their feedstock is a toxic waste of refining crude oil for burning. Without that subsidy, the cost of harvesting crude oil for plastics only would be astronomical, and that's only the economic costs. I'm not even including the environmental and social costs of crude oil mining. Which are many.
(DIR) Post #AWVYOXtCRuicksdWZU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T07:31:23Z
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@expat> I’ve heard plastic can be recycled into plastic around 7 times before the material loses its propertiesTrue, but with each recycle, it comes back as a lower grade material. The plastics used in clothing are usually the products of that 7th stage, like polystyrene, and can't be recycled. Even if they were all recyclable, I've already mentioned the logistical nightmare of gathering, cleaning, and shredding all that clothing for recycling. The energy spend involved is huge.
(DIR) Post #AWVZ4XEpGDfstjm3AO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T07:38:57Z
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@expatConverting plastic into oil consumes all the same energy in gathering, cleaning, and shredding, and probably much more than recycling directly into lower grade plastic.(2/2)
(DIR) Post #AWVZVqfH8nmay2AZwO by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T07:43:54Z
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@expat> which of those would be suitable for cyclists?You'd have to ask a materials scientist. That was just a list of examples to demonstrate that plastic vs. cotton is a false dichotomy, and hardly an exaustive one.> I don’t think any of those alternatives appear in sporting goods storesAlternatives to petrol can't usually be found at a service station.
(DIR) Post #AWVq6Clq1mv7Ddb600 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:15:16Z
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@strypey My microfiber tshirts don’t develop holes. But they are fragile in terms of snagging. If a fiber gets pulled on, the I have to use a flame to melt it so it doesn’t unravel.
(DIR) Post #AWVq6DUVLieJSAUlcW by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:20:09Z
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@strypey In any case, in the big picture of things, I would much rather see oil used for plastics than for burning. Instead of moving heavy objects down roads & creating GHG, I would rather see the oil made into comfortable clothing for cyclists. One of the goals should be to get as many people cycling as possible and allocating resources to favor cyclists.
(DIR) Post #AWVq6E9Gu9G7UbZKAC by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-09T10:49:44Z
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@expat I applaud your goals, and your logic is perfectly sound. But one of the premises it assumes is definitely false, and another one is questionable;1) Plastic production from oil is viable without producing fuel from it. It isn't, for reasons I gave in another post.2) Plastic is better than *any* naturally-sourced, biodegradable material for making athletic clothing. This seems highly unlikely. See:https://ecocult.com/plastic-free-sustainable-activewear-natural-fibers-organic/
(DIR) Post #AWVq6H7bqmiCiJoXUO by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:53:24Z
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@strypey Regarding durability of cotton, the properties that make it durable come from chemical additives which account for 30% of the garment’s weight: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/reduce-laundry-microfiber-pollution/ That same article also states that there are ways to make microfiber clothing less prone to shedding using tightly twisted yarn.
(DIR) Post #AWVq6IxP1hjgPF3PrE by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-09T05:53:29Z
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@strypey https://12ft.io/proxy?&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Ftopics%2Fengineering%2Fspun-yarn
(DIR) Post #AWXcGVl3HJ6PxdAZtY by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:24:07Z
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@strypey I oppose burning the stuff. So if there were controls in place to that effect & given that you say plastics are not economically viable otherwise, then shrinking the fossil fuel industry would shrink the plastic industry. I would be fine with that. Banning plastics directly would be excessively interventionist if plastic would naturally lose the support of the fossil fuel industry.
(DIR) Post #AWXciXhxcZJq7L5eN6 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:29:09Z
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@strypey A sporting goods store is not a petrol station. We do not buy our sporting goods from Chevron. There is no non-compete agreement between sporting goods retailers and plastic producers. As I said before, sporting goods stores have /some/ cotton. There is no conspiracy or collusion to prevent sporting goods stores from selling natural materials. They are simply serving consumer demand
(DIR) Post #AWXdcLLalVIVzvEdsG by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:39:16Z
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@strypey That article starts off with lies, claiming microfiber clothing is “itchy” “rashy” “unbreathable” “uncomfortable”. Athletes who actually wear microfibers would stop reading after the 1st couple paragraphs. At least they admit where their bias comes from- environmental protection.
(DIR) Post #AWXgv9f8jTrb7g2YGe by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T08:16:13Z
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@expat> Banning plastics directly would be excessively interventionistThis is said about all sorts of activist interventions, usually by those working in PR or parroting their talking points. Funny you never hear such people say the same about shoplifting or fraud, despite the fact that the consequences of these are limited and short-term, compared to the environmental problems that attract calls for bans.
(DIR) Post #AWXhPAQyQdJ0Cej13g by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:33:34Z
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@strypey If you think there’s some kind of collusion or shenanigans going on with all sporting goods stores, big and small, to steer athletes away from natural materials, I’m open to hearing it but I will be skeptical from the start. I could imagine a major chain being compromised by fossil fuel ownership, but certainly not on the scale that we see.
(DIR) Post #AWXhPBC7bL1GYsmfY0 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T08:21:19Z
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@expatSporting goods stores, like all for-profit businesses, sell whatever is most profitable. Usually that means cheap to produce and familiar to the most customers. Currently plastic is cheap, because it's subsidised by (and it subsidises) the fossil fuel industry. Natural materials are unfamiliar to customers, as demonstrated by this thread.
(DIR) Post #AWXhmKWH64nA8wFWgi by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T08:25:56Z
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@expat> They are simply serving consumer demandAgain, this is a corporate PR line. It's equally true that demand is shaped by what's commonly available. One way to change what's available, and thus change demand, is a government-mandated phasing out of plastic clothing. With all the environmental benefits we've already discussed. We've done this in Aotearoa with disposable plastic shopping bags and takeaway containers. All banned. All the same objections were raised, but life goes on.
(DIR) Post #AWXj2Z8EdWwS39JKCm by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T08:40:00Z
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@strypey No, it can’t, because you can have sensible interventions or you can have excessive interventions. Activism does not imply excessive interventions. Usually activism calls for _some kind_ of invention in areas where there is insufficient intervention. You’ve jumped past a dozen possible controls on plastic clothes to calling for outright ban. Obviously excessive.
(DIR) Post #AWXjSNVcTML5X0Yan2 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T08:44:27Z
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@strypey It’s only profitable because consumers demand it. If consumers found microfibers to be “itchy” & “uncomfortable”, they wouldn’t demand these kinds of clothes. Cotton clothing predates microfibers. I have no idea what kind of bubble you must be living in to think consumers are unfamiliar with cotton. Cotton has been pushed aside as it lacks what athletics need.
(DIR) Post #AWXjkcdAzLP7dxn65g by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T08:47:59Z
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@strypey plastic bags required intervention because they served consumers well despite the environmental problem. This is not the case you are making with microfibers. If you want to claim microfibers have poor performance, then you can simply kill them off by showing consumers a better performer.
(DIR) Post #AWYA08u7sPXetDmRm4 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:43:53Z
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@strypey I read the whole thing since I was looking to see if there’s any natural material I was unaware of for the use-case at hand. They list 13 brands, but it all boils down to: cotton, wool & bamboo in one case. Bamboo has the same performance properties as cotton in my experience (but I think it’s less harsh on the environment than cotton). The wool options might be interesting.
(DIR) Post #AWYA09VhchbEllMSLQ by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T13:42:10Z
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@expat> it all boils down to: cotton, wool & bamboo in one caseI'm pretty sure that the was as least one reference to capok too. Point being that there are already non-plastic options on the market, even if they're not yet being carried in chain stores. Further R&D on other natural fibre could yield even better options, that aren't ready to be marketed as products yet. Phasing out plastic can only help the efforts, just as passing our fossil fuels helps renewable energy development.
(DIR) Post #AWYA0AXrm8vNylNhM8 by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T07:54:17Z
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@strypey If they can get natural wool to be thin and stretchy like smart wool, it would certainly be worth a look. Regarding the durability discussion, I was considering how my socks have the shortest life. Whether they are cotton or microfiber, they get holes after a few years. There are half a dozen sock makers that guarantee their socks for life against wearing out. They use marino wool.
(DIR) Post #AWYA4LDy0rtsG33xnU by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T13:42:57Z
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@expat> That article starts off with lies, claiming microfiber clothing is “itchy” “rashy” “unbreathable” “uncomfortableThat's my experience of wearing plastic next to my skin, and I'm not alone. YMMV.
(DIR) Post #AWYBFwAt4ZgvzriR04 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T13:56:15Z
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@expat> you must be living in to think consumers are unfamiliar with cotton. Cotton has been pushed aside as it lacks what athletics need... and back to the plastic vs. cotton talking point, which I addressed a few posts back. Your confirmation bias on this appears to be impregnable and we're going in circles. Which usually means it's a good time to let it drop. Thanks for the discussion.
(DIR) Post #AWYBkrQml8SMGIthQW by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T09:04:15Z
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@strypey I don’t get what you’re saying about shoplifting & fraud. Those activities are already prohibited. Shops have the legal tools they need to combat shoplifting, so I’m not sure what further invention you would call for.
(DIR) Post #AWYBksCHuWSCdd7dT6 by strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz
2023-06-10T14:01:45Z
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One more post, just for clarification...@expat> I don’t get what you’re saying about shoplifting & fraud. Those activities are already prohibitedThis is my point. It's not seen as "excessive" to prohibit these less harmful practices. Plastic causes suffering on a massive scale, to humans and the rest of the biosphere (as demonstrated by that link you posted about the clothes on the beach), and will continue to be a problem for centuries to come. Yet prohibiting it is seen as "excessive".
(DIR) Post #AWYBktFA1KLVspTRaK by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T09:07:45Z
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@strypey I was recently at #Lidl & saw someone walk up to the trash bin & dig out a receipt. She then walked into the store with the receipt. I know from past drug addicted friends what she was doing. She was going to pull something from the shelf that matched an item on the receipt & return it. I went on the Lidl website to report it. A CAPTCHA was pushed. I don’t do CAPTCHAs.
(DIR) Post #AWYBkv4xCFMzZkiJxA by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-10T09:13:16Z
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@strypey So I chalked it up as #poeticJustice & did not report it. Lidl could have protected themselves in a number ways: offer electronic receipts, only give receipts on demand, post a sign asking customers not to toss out their paper receipts, have a separate paper-only trash with a thin slot, empty the trash often, arrange the customer service desk to be at the entrence, nix the CAPTCHA..
(DIR) Post #AWZmGJNagkEdQZevuS by expat@mamot.fr
2023-06-11T08:25:22Z
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@strypey Banning shoplifting & fraud is not a compromise. There is no merit to looking for ways to mitigate the harms of shoplifting & fraud while still supporting shoplifting & fraud. The harms to victims are inseparable from the benefits to the fraudster. You cannot have a victimless theft. So prohibition is the least you do on theft.