Post AVSbJbvxla06joE71M by wjmaggos@liberal.city
(DIR) More posts by wjmaggos@liberal.city
(DIR) Post #AVRkBJWl1SRJlPazHU by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T13:32:30Z
1 likes, 3 repeats
The danger of the excessive use of the #fediblock can be seen in email today. If you're using your own domain name or server, the message often doesn't go through. The big email providers say they are doing this to prevent abuse, and maybe that's true. But the presumption of malice, the centralization of services and the use of shared block lists is bad for free expression and market competition. This can happen to #ActivityPub too. Open protocols are not enough, it matters how we use them.
(DIR) Post #AVRkFz0Wk4yHZQkLJ2 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-08T13:33:25Z
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@wjmaggos Culture matters, in other words.
(DIR) Post #AVRl2xRnKcikvAqzJI by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T13:42:15Z
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@amerikayes but you incorrectly map culture to genetics instead of history imo, and perhaps also fail to recognize how cultures are not a package deal and change.
(DIR) Post #AVRr4zGy7D9Yt28n0y by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-08T14:49:52Z
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@wjmaggos Culture maps to genetics through history.What you are referring to as "culture" is more accurately called "ideology" (political, legal, economic systems).Cultures are a package deal. Diversity kills them. We see that time and again.
(DIR) Post #AVRvaUVKRkEEXl8RlY by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T15:40:21Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@amerikaculture is how a group of people at a certain time and place solve the problem of living. it includes politics, laws, economic systems, language, art, architecture, cuisine, religion, family and gender norms etc. it's everything people accepted as "the way people live" until they meet other people who do things differently.but these cultures are random. maybe they evolved to be quite static for a long period, but that doesn't make them good. it just means power has been well secured.
(DIR) Post #AVRwikp7kuK1QZtlNw by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T15:53:00Z
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@amerikagenetics map to culture to the degree people stayed in the same area long enough living with the same people, but I think I get part of your fear of diversity now.you think that when cultures mingle, people are dumb and so instead of taking the best of both cultures, they will more often take the worst. I think the opposite. I think it's cool to remember how people lived and try to learn from that, I don't want humanity preserved in amber. especially when the time/place is arbitrary.
(DIR) Post #AVS3JU5HYRQRx1LzHc by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-08T17:06:57Z
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@wjmaggos With mingling, you lose the whole thing, so culture ceases to exist.I do not think they have to be dumb for that.Surely you can point to some diversity success stories, since it goes back thousands of years?Genetics map to culture because generally people breed with those like them.
(DIR) Post #AVS3N01FHHjDrd8qG0 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-08T17:07:35Z
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@wjmaggos I think you are taking an ideological definition of culture.Culture is folkways, not bureaucracies.I do not think cultures are random; I think they work for certain groups for certain reasons, hence my high degree of "cultural relativism."
(DIR) Post #AVS5S69U6S9iF0YRKi by specter@eattherich.club
2023-05-08T17:30:46Z
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@wjmaggos I keep hearing these email concerns but I haphazardly setup eattherich.club with postfix and whatnot 2 or so years ago and have had zero problems :blobcatshrug:
(DIR) Post #AVS8LqkgkLU8bVfVUu by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T18:03:21Z
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@amerika that our lives now are better than any previous generation is the diversity success story. yes, of course the mingling breaks your concept of culture because your concept is built on looking at humans in isolation. freezing a small group in time and space and looking approvingly on something they did that was impressive in their situation. but just before that, separate groups had to mingle to establish this culture you now favor. it's the endless human story, not due to propaganda.
(DIR) Post #AVSKCpXV5KEpgcxv0K by host@tabletop.social
2023-05-08T20:16:06Z
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@wjmaggos hi, please use # fediblockmeta for your (bad) opinion and not the fediblock hashtag, thank you
(DIR) Post #AVSM1ttAlynFtp1D16 by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-08T20:36:40Z
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@wjmaggos Too short a time scale.Also: our lives are better now because of capitalism and technology, for the most part.Everything else is in decline.
(DIR) Post #AVSbJbvxla06joE71M by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-08T23:27:55Z
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@amerikamy time scale is all of human history. families formed tribes and then civilizations and they learned from each other. they also killed each other. but we're a bit better off than any first group that was larger than second cousins etc, and that joining together was an increase in diversity.you can't exempt capitalism and technology from our culture. you also can't say consumerism hasn't been a huge driver of technological advances and capitalism.you're just completely selective.
(DIR) Post #AVSmMq56ioZ4ypFIX2 by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T01:31:36Z
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@wjmaggos Uh, not true. It is generally that people do not have their domains setup and the standard practice now is to only accept emails with DKIM and SPF records. I know this as I deal with vendors who have a custom domain name from 10+ years ago, and they are getting their messages going to spam.It is 99% that. I have yet to see someone's email get blocked by Gmail (google workspace) AFTER they have fixed that.
(DIR) Post #AVSmnokjllL0g7a9YG by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T01:36:31Z
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@wjmaggos And the #fediblock is a tool a lot of admins are using because some instances are spamming out porn, racial hate, etc. So we are supposed to allow this through because of “free expression" or “market competition"? That is stupid. There are sets of rules each instance decides for itself and it's users. They are totally free to decide to BLOCK an instance because of whatever rules they have in place.
(DIR) Post #AVSn5wgh0TxoV4KnIW by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T01:39:48Z
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@wjmaggos And as an instance runner, I DO look at each site and go “yeah, we don't need that on my instance.” It's generally porn, hate speech, transgender hate, racism, etc. You can agree that someone SHOULD be blocked if they are constantly spewing out that stuff right? And if it is a problem on the WHOLE instance, then that WHOLE instance should maybe be blocked right?That is what the block list is. Go look at some of the sites there. It's nutz.
(DIR) Post #AVSnQdLS7KJGajGRoe by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T01:43:31Z
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@wjmaggos Should we have some sort of consensus on these block lists? Absolutely. @oliphant has done an excellent job of curating lists, and explaining how they are made, etc, etc. But it is incumbent on each instance and it's moderators and owners to figure out what they want to do. I think it would be sorta insane NOT to have block lists. Like it would be NOT having some sort of SPAM filter on email. No one wants to sift through 90 messages of Ads/Crypto/Porn.
(DIR) Post #AVSpn6lfbW3K7kN6wK by amerika@noagendasocial.com
2023-05-09T02:10:08Z
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@wjmaggos This is a creative redefinition of diversity! "If it's not your cousin, it's diverse."I disagree. We see related populations refining themselves over time thanks to a lack of diversity.Capitalism is an economic system, not a social one. Military investment drove more development than consumerism ever has.
(DIR) Post #AVT17Pjlsw1SFBMvlQ by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-09T04:16:58Z
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@ericdano @oliphantthe goal is a society that best understands the world & each other. the way that decentralized social media can facilitate the free flow of information & perspectives to make this possible is revolutionary. when people intentionally harass others, it reduces engagement and this exchange. but so does silencing. if somebody pushes their ideas on others when it's clearly unwanted, blocking is fine. and defederating is fine when an instance won't prevent this harassment. IMO
(DIR) Post #AVT2Lyb3AwdAMmnUie by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T04:30:47Z
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@wjmaggos @oliphant You are putting two things together that are not necessary related. Silencing is generally the result of harassment, a tool of last result when there seems no other option or the user/instance shows a history of behavior that is deemed worth silencing. A lot of people are point to some guy complaining that he was going to be blocked and being a Karen about it. It was ONE instance that decided that persons behavior was not what they wanted.
(DIR) Post #AVT2jdNdi0ZLW0nzzE by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T04:35:02Z
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@wjmaggos @oliphant Like if you keep sending me spam, and I block you after tell you to stop, and then you go out on the internet and bemoan that I’ve blocked you and that you are being silenced. That YOUR speech is being censored.Yes. That is exactly what happened. I (or an instance) has no obligation to listen to stuff we, as a community, don’t want to hear. And it’s generally posted on each instance what it deems “bad behavior”. I will absolute block an instance breaks rules here.
(DIR) Post #AVT3fehaGpWMfdQ3nM by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-09T04:45:35Z
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@ericdano @oliphantI agree with that. there was an issue about defederating related to opinions re the Harry Potter game. that should not lead to defederating if people aren't tagging others who don't want to be etc. Etc etc.
(DIR) Post #AVT46ozY7aUkP0mBay by ericdano@musician.social
2023-05-09T04:49:54Z
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@wjmaggosThat one resulted in a whole instance going down cause the owner was mad.The current thing about being blocked/silenced is some guy Matt Blaze who was bemoaning a single instance saying it was going to silence him.That is fine. If they think his behavior warrants that, then good for them. But the guy was kind of being a little over dramatic about it.
(DIR) Post #AVT4BoCKV5JvO88Fuq by oliphant@oliphant.social
2023-05-09T04:51:19Z
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@wjmaggos @ericdano First off, this is the last time I'm going to respond in a thread where someone is misusing the fediblock hashtag to shitpost about it. So before I block you, let me try to explain why you're wrong:No one acting in good-faith is "excessively using fediblock." The people excessively using the hashtag are people like you, who want everyone following the hashtag to hear their shitposting and meta about it. Feeling entitled to do so, when there's #fediblockmeta right over there.White cis het dudes are the last people who get to complain about the fediblock hashtag, created by black and queer communities as a way of warning servers about new dangerous bad actors. Shitposting on the tag is akin to harassment and abuse against those communities and anyone else trying to make the fedi a safer place. (Really? Yes, really.)You won't agree with every defederation. I don't, either. But no one will agree with them all, so what are you upset about? The right of one or two communities to exercise their right of free association? What should be the alternative? And where does this "should" come from, and who or what enforces it?You know what you do when you shitpost on the fediblock hashtag? The hashtag watched by admins across multiple servers hoping for useful signals on that hashtag, and you start filling it with noise? They block you. They see you're the admin of your server, and they block your whole server. They don't ask you if you think it's fair, they don't expect anyone's permission, they just silence or suspend you entirely so they can scroll through a hashtag created as a safety measure and ignore your trivial bullshit.There's little that pisses me off more lately than people misusing the hashtag when you could just not.That's what it always comes down to for me.You could just not.You woke up and chose violence.Lastly:What usually happens when a fediblock is announced on the hashtag is that admins all make their own decisions. Some silence, a smaller number suspend. Most do nothing. We're talking probably 3-5 servers, total, probably suspended you......That is, until you shitposted on the hashtag.See, fediblock isn't just a hashtag for reporting bad actors, it's also a spotlight that bad actors just can't seem to avoid standing right in front of and waving their hands to draw attention to themselves. A honeypot, if you will.No really, they literally can't help themselves. I'll never get over this, like we can literally tell people, "Hey, this is a honeypot. If you want to avoid getting negative attention, maybe don't shitpost on the--wow, you just can't help yourself. Amazing. Here comes another one."You keep stepping right in it and making it worse for yourself. If you want to discuss fediblock meta, use the correct hashtag for it, and stop taking up real estate here with your entitlement.defederating is fine when an instance won't prevent this harassment. IMOYou run the instance, and you're abusing the hashtag. This is considered by many harassment (who don't need your permission or approval to consider it that), and clearly you won't stop or prevent it. You could have edited your post to remove the hashtag or change it to fediblockmeta, and you won't.So by your own logic, defederating is fine. You're not preventing any harassment, you're doubling down on it.We're in the very early days here of building shared blocklists. No one needs to tell me about the potential risks here, or the dangers of recommending blocklists when no one is really going to agree on every block, so we've been spending a lot of time trying to figure out the best way to rule out false-positives, one-offs, and biases and come up with a shared blocklist that addresses the left-leaning, anti-harassment side of the Fedi.And we put anything that jeopardizes that firmly in the "alt fedi."And you're in the process of putting yourself there.https://writer.oliphant.social/rants/fediblock-what-it-is-what-it-isnt
(DIR) Post #AVT4kKOjHun16IONLk by wjmaggos@liberal.city
2023-05-09T04:57:35Z
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@oliphant @ericdanoI disagree with a ton of what you're saying but I'll accept that I shouldn't use that hashtag. I did not intend to use it the way you're assuming I knew I was. Sorry.
(DIR) Post #AVT4yzsFsRWFn6CI4W by oliphant@oliphant.social
2023-05-09T05:00:14Z
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@wjmaggos @ericdano I appreciate that. I'm not unreasonable and I'm not trying to play the role of colossal dick here, but the hashtag itself is intended to be used only for reporting bad actors and sharing useful information, not for talking about fediblock itself.
(DIR) Post #AVa5SOJwahgAQAYUBE by dexiheart@laserdisc.party
2023-05-12T14:08:32Z
0 likes, 0 repeats
@wjmaggos stop spamming the fediblock page, you incredible loser